Spencer is smug and smugly extends self-serving courtesies to Zionism in order to justify, by proxy, white interests. And has associations with Jews that have had no bearing on his trajectory. You can argue these things are bad, just as you can critique the personal failings of any thought leader, you cannot then argue that the AR are Civic Nationalists or pretend you conjured the term alt-light. They also think Sargon is pro-open borders. Not to say everything they criticize people for are fallacious, but often are decontextualized and self-serving. Sometimes they are right on the money but nobody is perfect
http://archive.is/fSsN2
http://archive.is/l8qSc
http://archive.is/Qe8oG
 
Same terms, phrases, rhetoric, and diction
 
Madman is purging pozzed intelligence with 88d
chess
 
Pewdiepie retweets Stefan Molyneux Video (actual forum post on TRS this day on the same subject, point proven? Even if it's a TRSer, shows the overlap in what is discussed that he'd come to a place otherwise hostile to TRS or the altright)
 
Potential Pope Says 'Muslims Want to Eradicate Christianity'
 
81% of Americans oppose "aid" to Israel
 
CPAC declares alt right an enemy
 
Jews call out white nationalists
 
Aesthetic Farage Edition
 
(((democrats))) call upon the 25th Amendment (not exact title, too long)
 
Cuckchan knew of Media's attacks on Milo beforehand
 
Eu passes law. Criticizing Establishment Now Classified as Terrorism
 
Press Briefing #14 with Sean "Evangelion is a poor man's Gundam" Spicer
 
Pat Buchanan: the coming clash with Iran
 
Memory Hole Thread
 
White Teachers Say "day without immigrants" was a blessing, shitskin
 
#Sweden Incident Trending on Twitter Right Now!
 
Former British PM was a huge Pedo, Establishment covered up
 
TSA fucks up. Possible Happening
 
France is Burning
 
LITHUANIA NO!
 
Sweden riot! Police forced to shoot at protestors as violence erupts - yet PM is in denial
 
Godwin's law stike suit again
 
New Ben garrison fuckers!
 
-------
 
You're like Renegade to be honest, coming in proximity to you is hazardous. In fact apparently renegade knows your moderators and used it to try to attack Right Wing Death Squads by getting info on them. Being full tilt at all times is actually just virtue signaling btw. It's what CF, Renegade, and Ironmarch. Destroying anyone useful while being generally useless in bringing people over, especially when you'll hold past "degeneracy" against them.
 
We shall all hang together, or most assuredly we will all hang separately.
 
I say this because I get the impression that a lot of the people "too right for the altright" have historically been why White Nationalism has gone no where: too unwilling to organize and too eager to burn down any organization that occurs. They want action yesterday and think this ordains them as the arbiter of what works and what doesn't because they serve the true ideology of the white man (whatever that happens to be). It's a consistent theme I have noticed. The movement which exists never lives up to their expectations so they refuse to get stuck in, or sometimes actively sabotage it. Moreover the people in said movement are never going to have all the right opinions and be properly effective when really the latter is what White Nationalism needs. While the former should not be ignored, it should be viewed in light of the latter because there will always be something which can be seen as a breach of purity. I do not think this happens because of jealousy or bitterness but because of moral paranoia, you think you'll be betrayed so you only trust the people who are sufficiently edgy about even more esoteric and ancillary issues. It's basically our form of signaling.
 
That said, 8pol not wanting to be defined and wanting to stay amorphous is justifiable on some level. As is not caring for e-celeb stuff. Even though I am big into organizing, not everything needs to be centralized or systematized for that. I also think 8chan being more extreme is good.
 
That said: we do need to stick/work together on some level, and 'having fun' is a big reason movements are successful. If you're not having fun you're not winning. Many of the more extreme channers seem to want this white nationalist gestalt to be a club nobody would join, not even themselves I suspect.
 
However, so long as 8pol is willing to work with the altright to promote white nationalism, even if this means they may have to go to bat for the dreaded Spencer when it's within their interest, then nothing is really wrong. Vice versa applies too.
 
 
http://i.imgur.com/qahMdE8.jpg
 
It's really not too different from what the Democrats/Media are trying to do to Trump over Russia. Rather than come out with hard accusations with evidence they instead assert a lot of innuendo about "Russian contacts" which could have been made in thousands of different situations, then using this mass of innuendo as justification to argue there is a deeper conspiracy. And because there is nothing concrete, it's hard to muster up the wherewithal to outright deny the accusations. As is the case in those cases: impropriety is assumed and past statements are eternal rather than subject to abrogation. And assumed to be 100% serious declarative statements when they're often ironic or saying quite the opposite of what is claimed.
 
"The altright has homosexuals and Richard Spencer isn't sperging out about massacring Jews so the alt-right is the aut-kike!"
 
The former is true, it does. The Kike remark is most amusing because it makes no real sense. Why would a kiked movement be ethnic nationalists who've pushed counter-semitism, the echoes meme (used by 8chan despite coming from TRS), and have Kevin MacDonald speaking at NPI? Why would Fash the Nation be a bunch of kippahs but then go on to fairly accurately predict Trump winning? Jews in the GOP wanted Hillary and Jewish controlled right wing opposition invariably ends up being civic nationalism at best (see rebel media).
 
Or talk about the USS Liberty? http://archive.is/SfTpC
 
The only possible counter-argument I can see is that the altright is just distracting people from doing things. On some level this is true. I bet the people who call themselves altright are broadly more lethargic than users of 8chan. Of course this is also because being an 8channer is defined by participating more than by self-identification. But beyond this it's still wrong. NPI conferences bring people together to network and places like TRS organized things like the TRS Expeditionary Force, is getting a legal team together (or at least were when I last heard about this before the doxing of Enoch), had meet-ups, and the kulturkampf podcast caused severe spasms of butthurt on /leftypol/ by defeating them in an argument etc. To be honest, Fash the Nation, Darwin Digest, and Kulturkampf were in fact part of the movement's smartset, alienating them does not help anything. These things were valuable. And not only are they gone and not replaced, the people who are most vociferously anti-TRS don't even acknowledge they need replacing. That careless attitude is why people are exasperated with what is called "purity spiraling."
 
Furthermore a lot of these exposes are simply wrong. Taking a trannies word that Ghoul hit on him is ridiculous. Trannies are notorious for fabricating attraction from others. Unless you think him recounting Ghoul's flirtations while sperging about Ghoul being a Nazi wasn't a forced additions at all.  
 
Meinkraft isnt gay, photoshopped crap implicated him http://imgur.com/a/wkfjY. This enough should be good enough for me to cast of the various aspersions, since it takes so much effort to disprove slanderous allegations and the lot of them are clearly contrived as well as decontextualized narratives.
 
And the dox of Richard's attacker was wrong (though it was appreciated)
 
The only valid stuff seems to be that there are homosexuals in the altright
 
Basically it's decontextualized drama caps regarding the alleged personal failings of people in the altright. That's it. I am being brief here because it's dealing with many people who have incidental/peripheral involvement in the movement so the specifics are harder to narrow down. The issue is ascribing this to the larger body.
 
 
A lot of this is most obvious with the allegation that the altright likes Milo Yiannopoulos as a person or figurehead. When really the altright did quite a bit to distance him from them. The dailystormer declaring him enemy number 1, by his own admission on Bill Maher and when asked a racialist question in a youtube video; therightstuff.biz putting out an article on him being bad for the movement; MillennialWoes doing a chat with Spencer about Milo and his cohorts appropriating the movement, etc. And of course Spencer's comments (https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/834188151249895428) and video on Milogate, wherein he even criticizes Milo for further indulging his own flamboyant persona in such a creepy way over time to become a homosexual icon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp246hVPcwI; and of course Sven/Seventhson's video on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDV5RelnPvo
 
Also, from the classical liberal himself http://archive.is/Cj8b3
 
http://therightstuff.biz/2016/05/06/milo-isnt-one-of-us/
http://therightstuff.biz/2016/09/21/milos-alt-right/
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/09/29/antisemites-and-white-supremacists-declare-holy-crusade-against-milo/
Him trying to steer the altright away from white nationalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywmd8kR-AmI
The top comment WAS someone in a Wehrmacht Pepe saying "Thanks for the advice (((Milo)))"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpYc31boyYo
And the altright calling him a Jew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXWJjzZXY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZbTQPO6IA
 
Moreover when Milo being a pedo-apologist broke the denizens of altright twitter basically said "figures" and moved on. They didn't defend him. The most that was ever said was "this is the start of a prolonged media blitz, not just against Milo but probably against all of the alt-lite, maybe even us" involving more 'regrettable' past statements and actions coming to light about certain people.
 
https://archive.is/vPDlC
https://archive.is/yNm6Y
 
These two being more alt-lite
https://archive.is/frMeS
https://archive.is/7nrKA
https://archive.is/74ZhK
 
Now onto Spencer. Let's make something clear, something that cuts against Spencer but another thing to his credit. He's goofy, corny, and foppish.
 
However, successful white advocacy has never existed once it was no longer socially acceptable. Because most white advocates sucked and the worst/most embarrassing tended to be more akin to what 8chan seems to want, definitely more extreme. The best white advocate is Jared Taylor and Spencer is arguably poised to be better than him in reaching people. Milo actually was wise when he said "Taylor is a perfectly genteel man but it didnt matter" (it was to that effect). Put another way http://archive.is/rhrZo
 
Spencer can actually do politics full time and nobody thought ill of NPI 2016 overall until the viral video, even then that tended to be the alt-light. And Richard stood his ground and didnt apologize, what we desire from the mainstream right and our own side. An attitude seen again in his performance at Texas A&M. No complaints about that.
So let's not drop at the first sign of trouble. We can do worse and for the most part. White nationalism has done worse.
 
There are also decontextualized remarks of Spencer being more tolerant of homos (he is so this is legit, but not to the extent suggested https://altright.com/2017/03/02/milo-and-his-enemies/ http://archive.is/HDUjv), and willing to meet Jews half-way on ethnonationalism (http://archive.is/7spnJ, this pissed off Blumenthal btw http://archive.is/NMjYb) by not being against Israel or Zionism as an ethnonationalist himself. Either a naive show of reciprocity or him being PR conscious. He clearly is not philosemitic just not as counter-semitic as many would like (not his words but his site and the most recent article on the matter http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2017/1/16/the-jewish-questionand-some-answers and this http://www.radixjournal.com/blog/2015/12/6/the-post-zionist-anti-white-left), or him frankly saying race mixing isnt that much of a threat on its own because it's rarer among NW Europeans and their extracts everywhere. Again, this doesn't mean he is okay with race mixing (there was a "black pill" segment on the daily shoah 79: Karaoke Hall Putsch wherein he clearly wasn't okay with race-mixing), it means he is picking his battles. Again, all of these cases are just him being nuanced and highfalutin. Far more consistent with his personality than some duplicitous plant. A plant would probably be more extreme to siphon up the most committed and hardcore people and turn off fence-sitters. Not something Richard is doing.
 
Some people even dislike Spencer for following Blaire White. Well he follows a lot of if not all the big youtube skeptics and NewRight people to my knowledge. He also follows this guy, but gets called a philo-semite https://twitter.com/GiladAtzmon or this guy https://twitter.com/NEETrunner who as of this writing has this name and avatar https://archive.is/hhc2o
 
He follows the leader of White's coven, Sargon: https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad
New Right people: https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet https://twitter.com/Cernovich https://twitter.com/Lauren_Southern
Pakman https://twitter.com/dpakman
This libertarian girl https://twitter.com/JulieBorowski
and this guy he doesnt agree with clearly  https://twitter.com/HeerJeet
 
Of course Spencer trolling the shit out of people during the 2017 super bowl by making it about the white race triumphing, getting into fistfights with GOPers back in 2014/15 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etfvQL7eIfo), BTFOing a rabbi at Texas A&M, saying Jews are paranoid about whites in a news interview (that's basically a kind way of saying Jews are anti-white), or saying Milo is a predator are all meaningless statements (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp246hVPcwI, clearly disgusted. And this https://archive.is/5hqDu). Maybe the last one can be seen as motivated by personal egoism, but a similar critique can be leveled at his moderate-cucky comments, that they were public facing comments.
 
Of course his successes are ignored. His mistakes however are eternal. Hailgate was an example of this. After NPI everyone was sucking his dick, but when the Atlantic video went out people were mad at him for *creating* such bad optics (he raised a glass). Some even criticized Spencer for being punched, when really that's a good sign, and he took the wrenched-suckerpunch attacker pretty well http://archive.is/XETVj
 
To quote Collin Liddel, author of Holocaust Amnesia Day so you can't doubt his sincerity, "This is yet another example of the "tyranny of words," where a public figure is expected to have a flawless record of statements that all line up with a consistent moral position, even when many of those statements are made in fast-flowing conversations, reacting instantly to other people, with shifting perspectives and changing levels of irony. As Cardinal  Richelieu once said, "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." Nowadays when "they" want to gun for you, they have your whole online history to construct their nooses from." Granted this article was about Milo Yiannopoulos and Liddel took no opinion as to whether Milo was guilty of condoning pedophilia, so that will be used against this salient point despite this addition, "The guy is a popular, flamboyant homosexual, and I've had him tagged as that from the beginning. And like anyone of that sort, a little digging will normally turn up some pretty interesting and disgusting dirt. Those who weren't born yesterday all get that. Never mind skeletons in the cupboard, I'm pretty confident his cupboard is like the closet out of The Witch, the Lion and the Wardrobe with a boneyard where Narnia should be."
 
Some on twitter even said Richard was changing his stance on homosexuality because he realizes it's unpopular and THAT'S why he denounced Milo. Or personal acrimony at the New Right and attention seeking. Milo's tenuous connection to the altright is why he commented this way.
 
They base this off of him saying, in 2014, that homosexuality is not going away and "nothing to get worked up over."
 
Maybe he's just wrong about homosexuals? Or maybe he didnt understand why people were splitting over the issue (which they did).
 
What it isnt is a gay mafia. And there isnt a contradiction between him savaging Milo and not being redpilled on homosexuality. He asked, rhetorically, "would you let your son go on The Dangerous Faggot tour with Milo." Specifically Milo. Not just anyone
 
But fundamentally the issue I see this. This is wasting time and not actually useful for either camp. And neither camp HAS to compromise to work together. The altright is just moderate, public-facing 8pol. As such I take 8pol's hostility to the altright to be rather misguided.
 
There is not any issue with the ideas but an assumption that because people in this new movement are not innocent (not surprising considering many are converts) then the whole thing must not be worth a damn. Even if the content is good, the effortposts good, the organization thus far accrued put to good use. None of that matters because channers can't bring themselves to make the alpha move.
 
What's the alpha move? Working with the altright but overtaking it by being better at being the altright. Being more pure and more consistent, having better answers. The altright did this to libertarians, presented themselves as being better libertarians than libertarians by understanding that demographics > economics and even go so far as to nearly dictate economics. Now Libertarians have to throw Richard Spencer out of conferences because the altright finds fertile converts among libertarians.
 
The right loses because it spends more time in petty fights rather than building organization. The Left's internal squabbles don't actually get in the way of their institutions most of the time, they build these things to keep the Left organized despite its squabbles. So really the Left's infighting becomes Darwinian. The most vicious and crafty survive.
That's what annoys me about his spat. Both groups (pol and the altright) are small, refuse to band together, and any attempts to organize the far right gets burned down by its own factions throwing a hissy fit and all the organization is lost
 
TRS and the altright provide(d) a lot of the organization. The chans don't. In fact the chans argue not being organized is good, as they post on an imageboard they don't control. Well then I await their ascension. Though in truth I don't wholly disagree. I think you need both.
 
But the fact is, pol, you guys only convince people who actively participate in your culture for long enough. None of you are persuasive on your own. That's the value of organization right there.
 
I also don't think the altright is strictly speaking wrong to not purge useful people because of your accusations. You've proven you'll hold it against them all, no reason to think you won't continue to as soon as they've ceded the authority to you and if you ever feel justified in weaving a new narrative about someone. Hell, you already use them making "implicitly white" gay jokes as proof they're a gay mafia. So they see you like they see Common Filth: someone who just wants the power of gatekeeper.
 
The ultimate irony being they throw in support behind people rather anti-white and frankly dishonest like Common Filth( king of out of context screencaps and generalizing individual members of the altright) or very milquetoast people like Trump and his people. Or Sargon (commenter on video about Richard Spencer being punched, top comment. Said Sargon is consistent. Sargon defended Milo). Or infowars (forgetting that Prison Planet defended Milo while Sven/Spencer didn't). Which really shows how fatuous this is.