"Untitled"
By gando (https://pastebin.com/u/gando)

URL: https://pastebin.com/NDyTAujC
Created on: Friday 22nd of April 2011 06:27:25 PM CDT
Retrieved on: Saturday 31 of October 2020 07:59:27 AM UTC



Session Start: Fri Apr 22 18:49:07 2011
Session Ident: #music
03[18:49] * Now talking in #music
03[18:49] * Topic is 'Welcome to #music, a channel for general music discussion ~ Enjoy your stay :)'
03[18:49] * Set by unknown on Thu May 29 15:24:17
05[18:49] -ChanServ- [#music] Welcome to #music...don't kill anyone! Unless they really, really deserve it
01[18:49] <06velocidensity> Hearing the difference now isn’t the reason to encode to FLAC. FLAC uses lossless compression, while MP3 is ‘lossy’. What this means is that for each year the MP3 sits on your hard drive, it will lose roughly 12kbps, assuming you have SATA – it’s about 15kbps on IDE, but only 7kbps on SCSI, due to rotational velocidensity. You don’t want to know how much worse it is on CD-ROM or other optical media.
01[18:49] <06velocidensity> I started collecting MP3s in about 2001, and if I try to play any of the tracks I downloaded back then, even the stuff I grabbed at 320kbps, they just sound like crap. The bass is terrible, the midrange…well don’t get me started. Some of those albums have degraded down to 32 or even 16kbps. FLAC rips from the same period still sound great, even if they weren’t stored correctly, in a cool, dry place. Seriously, stick to FLAC, you may not be able to hear the difference now, but in a year or two, you’ll be glad you did.
[18:49] <06Richieuk> i dont know, i have nothing against the guitar lol, i love the guitar but not a fan of power solos and long improvs ect, dont really know how else im ment to explain it,
[18:51] <06Richieuk> mp3 really isnt that great and its quite an old format now
03[18:51] * copypaste (442c920a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.44.146.10) has joined #music
[18:52] <06idletask> FLAC, the L in it means Lossless
[18:53] <06idletask> That makes the difference
[18:53] <06idletask> Anyway
[18:53] <06Richieuk> its just handy for mass consuption and will play on most media players without probs
01[18:53] <06velocidensity> no, the thing is, MP3s degrade in quality over time
[18:53] <06idletask> velocidensity: no they don't
01[18:53] <06velocidensity> especially if you don't store them right
[18:53] <06experian> lol
03[18:53] * Hunterm (~Hunterm@unaffiliated/hunterm) has joined #music
[18:53] <06copypaste> velocidensity: I store mine in an mp3 player in my freezer
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01[18:53] idletask is ~fg@AOrleans-553-1-39-215.w92-152.abo.wanadoo.fr * Who cares
01[18:53] idletask on #music 
01[18:53] idletask using lindbohm.freenode.net Stockholm, Sweden
01[18:53] idletask is logged in as idletask
01[18:53] idletask End of /WHOIS list.
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01[18:53] <06velocidensity> me too, copypaste
[18:53] <06copypaste> and I still hear them decaying
[18:53] <06experian> have u ever done an abx on mp3?
[18:54] <06idletask> Files are files, just store them on a fs that does checksums, they will _never_ degrade over time
01[18:54] <06velocidensity> copypaste, the only real way to keep them in good quality is to re-rip them to FLAC and store them in liquid nigtrogen
[18:54] <06Richieuk> you lose quality straight away during playback, its a passable audio format at best
03[18:54] * AcidDash (~AcidDash@pool-96-255-156-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #music
[18:55] <06idletask> If they do, blame your storage medium, not the files
[18:55] <06AcidDash> hunterm i accidentally your dubstep, copypaste accidentally into it
01[18:55] <06velocidensity> Richieuk, mp3 is only really good for playback on the spot, because it degrades so quickly
[18:55] <06idletask> Damn it, digital files are more manichean than anything you can find
[18:55] <06idletask> MP3, FLAC, WAV, you name it
[18:56] <06idletask> Same thing
[18:56] <06idletask> They are 1s and 0s
[18:56] <06copypaste> >FLAC, WAV
[18:56] <06idletask> Manicheans
[18:56] <06copypaste> no problem here
[18:56] <06AcidDash> whats a manichean
[18:56] <06copypaste> >MP3
[18:56] <06copypaste> oh no
[18:56] <06AcidDash> oh yeah mp3 is the worst file format by far
[18:56] <06AcidDash> so much compression its awful
[18:56] <06copypaste> ogg vorbis for lyfe
01[18:56] <06velocidensity> bro, mp3s are special. they degrade a lot faster than every other file. a .exe file might go for 15 years without any degrading, but mp3s can only go about 5 minutes without any degrading
[18:57] <06AcidDash> i hear if you keep them in a dry, cool, space, they can last for 20 years even
[18:57] <06idletask> AcidDash: a manichean view of things means, either it's one extreme of another - meaning, either it's good or bad, or it's a 1 or a 0
05[18:57] -ChanServ- [#ubuntu] Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic. This channel is logged. Use of this channel implies acceptance of terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
[18:57] <06AcidDash> idletask ur a manichean
[18:57] <06copypaste> so what kind of music do you guys like
[18:57] <06idletask> AcidDash: and so are all files on a computer
[18:57] <06copypaste> i like dubstep encoded in 64mbps ogg's
[18:57] <06copypaste> music to my ears so to speak
[18:57] <06idletask> mp3s DO NOT degrade over time
[18:57] <06copypaste> 64kbps***
[18:58] <06Hunterm> what the fuck does manichean mean
[18:58] <06copypaste> idletask: we've already established they do
[18:58] <06idletask> copypaste: who? Certainly not scientists :p
[18:58] <06AcidDash> wait what mp3s degrade over time yes
14[18:58] * Hunterm (~Hunterm@unaffiliated/hunterm) has left #music
[18:58] <06idletask> Hunterm: as I explain, a manichean view of things mean they either live at one extreme or another
[18:58] <06idletask> AcidDash: no they don'"t
[18:59] <06idletask> AcidDash: that is a myth
[18:59] <06AcidDash> Yes they do, I have some mp3s from like 10 years ago and the quality is awful
[18:59] <06AcidDash> i redownloaded them a week ago
[18:59] <06AcidDash> and it was better
[19:00] <06idletask> AcidDash: that's called the Coué method...
[19:00] <06idletask> AcidDash: they are not any better
[19:00] <06Richieuk> the only way that mp3's would degrade is from changing the pysical location of the file, not from the amount of plays ext
[19:00] <06idletask> Just checksum them
[19:00] <06Richieuk> ect
[19:00] <06AcidDash> what do you mean idletask they have the same checksum
[19:00] <06AcidDash> just the older ones are lower quality
[19:01] <06idletask> AcidDash: if you download the same file, strictly the same file, twice in a row, they _will_ be identical
[19:01] <06copypaste> I heard if you open the mp3 file in notepad and sing into it using dictation software you can get a huge quality boost
[19:01] <06copypaste> like dragon, etc
[19:01] <06idletask> copypaste: don't tell me you believe that :p
[19:01] <06copypaste> sure, it helps fill the gaps
[19:01] <06AcidDash> lol okay idletask you can make up w/e, but I know the truth
[19:01] <06copypaste> makes sense
[19:02] <06idletask> copypaste: you are a very skilled troll, I say :p
[19:02] <06AcidDash> idletask you just don't know what ur talkin about lol
[19:03] <06copypaste> look at the numbers idletask 
[19:03] <06copypaste> how many agree with u vs how many agree with me
[19:03] <06idletask> AcidDash: I do, too... Don't miss between the content and the titles
[19:03] <06idletask> copypaste: no need to look at the numbers
[19:03] <06copypaste> it's called a reality distortion field
[19:03] <06AcidDash> whats that supposed to mean
[19:03] <06copypaste> you're livin in it bro
[19:03] <06copypaste> snap out
[19:03] <06idletask> copypaste: as I said - computer storage is the most manichean device you can find
[19:03] <06Richieuk> anyway, that subjects boring now
[19:04] <06AcidDash> 3>implying manichean makes a difference
01[19:04] <06velocidensity> idletask, why can you not accept the reality of how mp3s degrade
[19:04] <06idletask> velocidensity: they do not, and I know it, it's a fact... Only the storage medium can degrade, what you store on it can NOT degrade
[19:05] <06idletask> And MP3s are just files - sequences of 1s and 0s
[19:06] <06AcidDash> yeah but the 1s and 0s arent redundant
[19:06] <06AcidDash> it slowly gets corrupted over time
[19:06] <06idletask> _very_ slowly
[19:06] <06AcidDash> no with mp3s surprisingly quickly
[19:06] <06AcidDash> not 5 minutes
[19:06] <06idletask> How old is your computer? Does it still boot?
[19:06] <06AcidDash> but within a month its lower quality
[19:06] <06idletask> Nah
[19:07] <06copypaste> the music companies do it duh
[19:07] <06AcidDash> say what you want man
[19:07] <06idletask> That's bullshit, and I'm being kind
[19:07] <06copypaste> put a special flag on it
[19:07] <06copypaste> to make them degrade
[19:07] <06copypaste> blame steve jobs
[19:07] <06idletask> Oh dear
[19:07] <06AcidDash> lol copypaste do u srsly belivev that
[19:07] <06idletask> copypaste: if you believe that, you are way beyond reality of how computers just _work_
[19:08] <06AcidDash> its bill gateses falt
[19:08] <06copypaste> AcidDash: gates is a good man
[19:08] <06copypaste> he's helping starving africans
06[19:08] * idletask says copypaste is a troll
[19:08] <06copypaste> while jobs just ruins our music and dodges taxes
[19:08] <06AcidDash> true, but he don't know what anal cancer feels like
[19:08] <06AcidDash> jobs does
[19:08] <06AcidDash> like a REAL man
[19:09] <06idletask> No, Jobs ruins people's IQ, that's different
[19:09] <06Richieuk> what are you judgung the degredation of MP3s on anyway?? Bitrate etc??
[19:09] <06idletask> Richieuk: drop it, that's a myth
[19:09] <06AcidDash> no simple audio quality
[19:09] <06AcidDash> i can feel it in the sound
[19:09] <06Richieuk> lol, im on your side here idletask 
[19:09] <06idletask> Richieuk: a bad one at that, a one made up by people wanting to scare you away from anything Net purchased/downloaded :p
[19:10] <06AcidDash> Seriously, maybe you can't hear it with your cheap $200 speakers, but i have a surround sound 8.2 system setup
[19:10] <06idletask> AcidDash: myth - Coué method, as you like, but in any case, bullshit
[19:10] <06copypaste> AcidDash: gates knows what ear cancer feels like
[19:10] <06copypaste> i mean he has to listen to ballmer all day
[19:10] <06AcidDash> so i hear every tiny imperfection in my $3500 system
[19:10] <06copypaste> DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS 
[19:11] <06copypaste> sure, it might not be as bad as anal cancer
[19:11] <06copypaste> but who's keeping score really
[19:11] <06copypaste> :)
[19:11] <06idletask> AcidDash: OK, look, I have a YBA preamp/amp setup and Triange speakers, and have MP3 files dating back 1993, they still sound the same today as they did 18 years ago
[19:11] <06idletask> So, MP3s degrade over time? Yeah, righjt
[19:11] <06AcidDash> copypaste you aren't a real man until you're forbidden to have anal sex with man due to cancer
[19:11] <06copypaste> you're just getting older and your hearing is going
[19:11] <06AcidDash> ^
[19:12] <06idletask> If anything, they sound even better than they did back then, since I upgraded my audio hardware
[19:12] <06idletask> Heh
[19:12] <06AcidDash> see now i know you're lying
[19:13] <06AcidDash> upgrading your audio hardware isnt going to make them sound better because they are mp3s
[19:13] <06idletask> Of course not
[19:13] <06AcidDash> if you have flac you would hear a very clear and noticeable difference
[19:13] <06Richieuk> anyway this is a 2005 conversation i thought ppl were over this already, if you dont like mp3 encode to something else
[19:13] <06copypaste> lol true story guys
[19:13] <06idletask> But better rendering makes music sound better
[19:13] <06AcidDash> and thats why mp3 is bad
[19:13] <06copypaste> I took a FLAC file
[19:13] <06copypaste> and used adobe audible
[19:13] <06copypaste> to make it real high pitched
[19:13] <06copypaste> and now I use it to fuck with my dog
[19:13] <06copypaste> let's see mp3 do that
[19:14] <06AcidDash> nice
[19:15] <06idletask> It reminds me of a guy who would not believe me when I said that gear ratios on a car were linear
[19:15] <06idletask> He didn't even know of basic mechanics
[19:15] <06idletask> The same goes here, at an even lower, more worrying level
[19:16] <06AcidDash> well if you have multiple together it multiples
[19:16] <06idletask> Gear ratios are linear
[19:16] <06idletask> And files DO NOT change over time, until you write to them or storage gets corrupted
[19:16] <06AcidDash> dude idletask do you know how a harddrive works
[19:16] <06AcidDash> its magnetic bits
[19:16] <06idletask> If files are written to without your knowledge --> change your OS
[19:16] <06idletask> AcidDash: of course I do
[19:17] <06AcidDash> electromagnetic radiation from the sun slowly degrades files that arent redundant
[19:17] <06AcidDash> like mp3s
[19:17] <06AcidDash> flacs and ogg vorbis are self-repairing
[19:17] <06idletask> AcidDash: I also know about checksumming filesystems and operating systems :p
[19:17] <06idletask> No they are not
[19:17] <06copypaste> I thought we agreed it was jobs
[19:17] <06copypaste> not the sun
[19:17] <06idletask> Don't be stupid
[19:17] <06AcidDash> yes they keep a hashtree of checksums
[19:17] <06AcidDash> and can fix minor problems
[19:18] <06idletask> No
[19:18] <06idletask> They can NOT do this by themselves
[19:18] <06copypaste> y not
[19:18] <06idletask> Just _think_ about it for a minute
[19:18] <06AcidDash> why couldnt they
01[19:18] <06velocidensity> idletask, why do you not understand? it's obvious that mp3 files degrade over time, and it's obvious that FLAC files do not.
[19:18] <06AcidDash> thats why the first time you play them it takes a second or two to start
[19:18] <06idletask> Files don't have any built in intelligence, that's why!
[19:18] <06AcidDash> yes they do
[19:19] <06idletask> velocidensity: it's obvious that you don't understand anything about computing, otherwise you would not say that
[19:19] <06AcidDash> they have a tree of hashes
[19:19] <06idletask> AcidDash: no
[19:19] <06AcidDash> so they hash down to fix problems
[19:19] <06AcidDash> yes
[19:19] <06idletask> AcidDash: again, no
[19:19] <06AcidDash> i see you dont understand how they work, its okay
[19:19] <06copypaste> LMAO AD HOMINEM
[19:19] <06copypaste> "it's obvious u understand nothing about computing"
[19:20] <06AcidDash> well he knows some stuff
[19:20] <06idletask> AcidDash: if ever a file format has such a feature, it will be up to a program scanning that file to fix that up, but the file _can_ _not_ _do_ _it_ _by_ _itself_
[19:20] <06idletask> Period
[19:20] <06AcidDash> right
03[19:20] * Thedevil_ (~Thedevil_@190.233.89.193) has joined #music
[19:20] <06AcidDash> all audio players have it built-in
[19:20] <06idletask> AcidDash: I understand far, far more than you (think you areà
[19:20] <06Thedevil_> hi.
[19:20] <06idletask> AcidDash: I can testify that this isn't the case
[19:20] <06AcidDash> haha, okay idletask :)
[19:21] <06idletask> AcidDash: I use VLC
03[19:21] * Augustus (awwcrap@ool-182c40c5.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #music
[19:21] <06AcidDash> sure.
[19:21] <06idletask> AcidDash: and I know its source code
[19:21] <06copypaste> idletask: how's that font cache coming along
[19:21] <06AcidDash> by heart?
[19:21] <06AcidDash> lol
[19:21] <06idletask> AcidDash: guess what: it NEVER overwrites MP3 files
[19:21] <06AcidDash> its funny because it's open-source
[19:21] <06AcidDash> EXACTLY
[19:21] <06AcidDash> thats why they degrade
[19:22] <06copypaste> but FLAC is different
[19:22] <06idletask> AcidDash: OK, I drop it, you're really being a dork, and I'm really kind... Please read about btrfs, and see for a proof why you are a dork
01[19:22] <06velocidensity> FLAC is read-only absolutely, so it can't be written over
[19:22] <06AcidDash> its really easy to fix a file you could probably do it in a kilobyte of code
[19:22] <06idletask> Oh dear
[19:23] <06copypaste> I could do it in fifty characters of brainfuck code
[19:23] <06idletask> I can do dd if=/dev/zero of=some.flac.file bs=1k count=1 WHENEVER I WANT
[19:23] <06AcidDash> 3>implying you know about a tree file-system
[19:23] <06idletask> Of course I do
[19:23] <06AcidDash> no dude
[19:23] <06AcidDash> you just check the hashes all the way down
[19:23] <06AcidDash> flip the wrong bits
[19:23] <06idletask> Like you know better than me, maybe?
[19:23] <06AcidDash> and then you're done
[19:23] <06idletask> Yeah, right
[19:23] <06AcidDash> yes
[19:23] <06idletask> Just try and lure btrfs and we'll talk about it then
[19:24] <06copypaste> is btrfs a person
[19:24] <06idletask> No, it's a filesystem...
[19:24] <06copypaste> how can you lure a filesystem
[19:24] <06idletask> Just like ntfs, ext3, ext4, hfs, ntfs...
[19:25] <06idletask> ufs, coda, 9pfs, etc etc
[19:25] <06AcidDash> lol okay
[19:25] <06copypaste> just use ntfs, it's made my MS so you know it's good
[19:25] <06AcidDash> its really nothing special
[19:25] <06copypaste> it has advanced features that slow the degredation of mp3's
01[19:25] <06velocidensity> the filesystem has nothing to do with it, the files themselves slowly degrade over time because of the crappy encoding of the bytes
[19:25] <06AcidDash> btrfs look at me im using a buzzword
[19:25] <06idletask> copypaste: ntfs has no checksums
[19:26] <06idletask> The only two filesystems which have data-level checksums today are zfs and btrfs
[19:26] <06AcidDash> yeah
[19:26] <06AcidDash> but im tellin you
[19:26] <06copypaste> bull
[19:26] <06idletask> AcidDash: "look at me, mp3s degrade over time, I know about computers"
02[19:26] * Bucketface (~Kinky_Che@95.83.193.196) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:26] <06AcidDash> mp3s degrade because they dont use checksums
[19:26] <06AcidDash> lol
[19:26] <06copypaste> ntfs is used on mac and apple is the most innovative company
[19:26] <06AcidDash> i can tell you're bad
[19:27] <06AcidDash> *mad
[19:27] <06copypaste> so if it's not in ntfs it's not worth having
[19:27] <06copypaste> am i right
[19:27] <06idletask> copypaste: mamma mia... Mac OS X's native filesystem is HFS+, and they have plans to switch to ZFS
[19:27] <06Augustus> I don't know about you, but I run OS X on NTFS
[19:27] <06AcidDash> It's funny because only sun uses zfs
[19:27] <06idletask> Mac OS X has NEVER used NTFS
[19:27] <06Augustus> I try to make things less shitty
[19:28] <06AcidDash> oh right Oracle lol
[19:28] <06Augustus> I install it on a NTFS partition
[19:28] <06Ycros> idletask: didn't they drop zfs from the latest release. They only ever had read-only support anyway.
02[19:29] * idletask (~fg@AOrleans-553-1-39-215.w92-152.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[19:29] <06AcidDash> lol
[19:30] <06copypaste> lol
[19:30] <06copypaste> he was so mad at being wrong lmao
[19:30] <06copypaste> probably crying to mommy
01[19:30] <06velocidensity> this was amazing
01[19:30] <06velocidensity> 10/10, guys
[19:30] <06AcidDash> 10/10 what?
[19:30] <06copypaste> AcidDash: 10/10 degraded MP3 btis
[19:31] <06AcidDash> probably
[19:31] <06AcidDash> i bet he's using a non-redundant OS and got corrupted and crashed lol
[19:31] <06copypaste> he sure was using hacker stuff