First Writing Meetup Do or Deer

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        wreckingfist    Yo

        Flurshy get the other two in here

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        Alquire We secret club now hue.

        wreckingfist    we be clubbin

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        wreckingfist    Alright

        wreckingfist    Ladies, gentlemen. Let's get down to business to defeat the huns.

        Alquire Let's get on topic, we had a schedule for today or not?

        wreckingfist    Our main goal is to make an outline and a clear moral with it.

        wreckingfist    No fuss, no muss.

        Robo-Hobo       Well, last time just devolved into organisation issues.

        Robo-Hobo       I think with this small number we can keep it relatively fee-for-all

        wreckingfist    Since we got a more closed writing room, that means we can discuss differences and opinions on a personal level

        wreckingfist    Without having to play keep up with text walls

        Flurshy mhmm

        Flurshy Now, to start, how about we take a look at the morals that are listed now?

        Alquire Anyway, if we're going to start the story, do we have something like a text we can start with, that everyone in this group agreed with?

        Flurshy Alquire, can you rephrase that?

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        wreckingfist    Well unfortunately the biggest thing we gotta deal with is the setting. It's what really divided all of us. And yes Alquire , plz rephrase

        Alquire Do we have a moral?

        Flurshy not yet

        wreckingfist    Of course not, tis why we're here friend!

        wreckingfist    And find a moral we will!

        Flurshy hey, can we get a list of the main premise-setting-moral combinations we have? in gist

        wreckingfist    Well, the main settings we have so far are: Treebark goes to ponyville to learn about pony society. And the ponies go to the woods and meet the deer.

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        Alquire And also, tthe deer goes by his own will.

        Flurshy Treebark chooses to learn about ponyville?

        wreckingfist    Depends on the outline.

        Alquire Yup, because curiosity.

        Flurshy hmm

        wreckingfist    Some 'convinced' him.

        Robo-Hobo       back in a sec, just gotta let people know what we're up to in -writing.

        Flurshy fuck, I have to shower

        Flurshy >.<

        Robo-Hobo       I've got paladin asking.

        Flurshy you guys keep discussing without me

        wreckingfist    Premise for ponyville is not to push your beliefs on another. Woods is that being different does not mean you can't be loved.

        Robo-Hobo       Then I'll take off +m

        Flurshy should only be about seven minutes

        wreckingfist    Alright Alquire, let's get intimate

        Alquire I somehow like where this is going.

        wreckingfist    What is your pitch, and why do you think it would work best for this outline?

        wreckingfist    Just your opinions. I want to hear them.

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        Alquire Hmm...

        Alquire "The Deer tribe it's about to go when the main six finds the deers, and they will leave in 1 day. Treebark must decide if he should know more about his past life, or to ignore it, and to forget what he might really be."

        Alquire Same of what it's in the Googledoc, different words.

        wreckingfist    Alright, why do you think this is the best choice for the outline?

        Alquire Rather than saying this is the best outline right now because certain reasons, i would like to hear the rest of the outlines the writting team has.

        Alquire Because my opinions can change.

        wreckingfist    No no, I just want to hear your opinion right now

        wreckingfist    Like, what are the merits of this outline.

        Alquire Treebark is able to develop more about his own identity as a pony.

        wreckingfist    And?

        Alquire The whole concept can be fleshed out very well if applied correctly by the writters. Or at least what i have in mind.

        Alquire We can have Spike and Treebark interactions, and also including the main 6 interactions without having any problems at all.

        Alquire Though, more as a whole concept for an episode, it's more like a plot-device for what could be the whole idea of the episode.

        wreckingfist    Alright

        Alquire Because after deciding to "go to ponyville", anything can happen up to the writters.

        wreckingfist    Well, I suppose to put everything on the table, I will pitch my own concept.

        Alquire Ok.

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        wreckingfist    "Upon discovering a family of deer in the White Tail Woods, AJ, Rarity, RD, Twi and Spike go on a search to find their missing son. But to spike's surprise, it turns out he's a pony. The episode focuses on internal conflicts, Treebark's difficulty understanding why his family is so protective (And his conflict of his own identity), and Spike's own insecurities."

        Flurshy I like that idea. Very well thought-out.

        Robo-Hobo       And why do you think this is the best outline for the episode?

        Alquire How many time do you think it would take to discuss their own internal conflicts?

        wreckingfist    This story is essentially exactly the same as I pitched it last time, at least the core concept. Setting is still entirely in Whitetail, and rather than relying on slapstick, the episode focuses more on dialogue and character based gags to keep the mood upbeat.

        Flurshy hmm...

        wreckingfist    The merits of his concept are simply that it would feel the most complete and well rounded. It relies entierly on the characters and their own conflicts to push the story, and would need absolutly no padding.

        Flurshy I have the same question as Alquire. Could we fit this into 25~ minutes?

        wreckingfist    The flow would not be interrupted, and allow characters to develop in an enviorment that encourages isolation.

        Robo-Hobo       I guess I'll pitch mine when you're done.

        wreckingfist    Yes, I actually do. The episode can be paced with the three act structure, and work well with flowing dialogue and well timed introductions.

        Alquire More than having it fitting in 25~ minutes, i would rather think if this can reach 20~ minutes, because i think the story is cool, it DOES have the potentiall to certainly develop the characters, but we can't have the whole episode as a dialogue.

        wreckingfist    Nor does it have to be

        Flurshy hmm... introduction of Spike's insecurities, question of protectiveness, and such in act one... act two trying to find things out... act three actually learning

        Alquire Off-topic: Wee, just downloaded epic choirs.

        Alquire Now back to topic.

        Alquire I don't see any problem with having your idea, but, might i change it a little to see if i can somehow mix both ideas?

        Alquire And then you can discuss what you like or not.

        Robo-Hobo       I'll picth mine first, if that's ok.

        wreckingfist    The beauty of this concept is that it can use physical actions and movement to help show how characters feel without it being outright said.

        wreckingfist    Yes, let's wait until everyone finishes pitching

        Alquire Ok.

        Robo-Hobo       Ok

        wreckingfist    Then we can critique concepts, and then start the construction

        wreckingfist    Robo, as you were

        Alquire Be right back, i'll test the sounds.

        Flurshy While we wait for Robo, I'll note that I don't have a pitch

        Alquire But think about it -- You now REALLY have the option to make an episode for FiM, what episode could it be?

        Alquire Give your time to do it

        Alquire Take*

        Flurshy hmm.

        wreckingfist    That is actually exactly why I am giving what I am

        wreckingfist    Seriously, give it your all Flurshy

        Flurshy I may not have a pitch until the next meeting, then... but I'll try.

        Alquire There's no deadline now.

        Alquire Off-topic: Fuck, i need to update Kontakt.

        Robo-Hobo       "The mane six find a pony living with a family of Deer in the woods. This pony has never seen other ponies before, but has heard of them. He thinks he's just a strange deer, but quicly realises that he is, in fact, a pony. Naturally curious, he wants to learn more about the ponies. the mane 6 invite the family to ponyville. The young colt enjoys some aspect of 'civilised' life, but finds others scary and confusing. while in ponyville,

        Robo-Hobo       the ponies seem more concerned with ponyville itself and TB's parents than with TB himself. TB and spike develop a friendship while in the town. later on, the ponies and deer argue for some reason, and TB runs off followed by spike. the ponies and deer search, though the 2 are perfectly safe and having a feelsy talk. Eventually they are found through teamwork, and the ponies learn that you should pay attention to what others want, ra

        Robo-Hobo       ther than trying to get them into what you like.

        Robo-Hobo       fuck that's longer than I thought.

        Alquire It's ok

        Alquire Give me some time to read it, though.

        Robo-Hobo       np

        Alquire >dat 1MB/s download

        Alquire I fucking love uTorrent

        Robo-Hobo       Let me know when you're done and I'll tell you why I like it.

        Alquire Ok.

        wreckingfist    Alright, why do you like this outline?

        Robo-Hobo       When Al's done.

        Alquire Done. You can talk.

        Robo-Hobo       k

        Robo-Hobo       This outline has two plots running parallel, that of the ponies and deer, and that of Treebark and spike.

        Robo-Hobo       While The adults are telling each other about their cultures, without really listening to what the others have to say, TB is trying to integrate into a new culture to find out if it's really what he was born for.

        Flurshy has a pitch ready

        Robo-Hobo       WF, I know you'd like to have TB and spike talking in isolation, but I think we can pull off a feeling of isolation for spike/TB while the other ponies are around.

        Alquire Anything else you can flesh out of your idea? To me it seems that is enough with what you've said, it's really complete.

        Robo-Hobo       It should give off the feel that TB doesn't feel like he belongs anywhere, at least to begin with.

        wreckingfist    Before we continue, let's see what Flurshy has.

        Robo-Hobo       Yus.

        wreckingfist    Go ahead Flur

        Flurshy mine's pretty long... just warning you.

        Flurshy prepare for a wall of text

        Flurshy The deer are clearing out of the Whitetail Woods to avoid the soon-to-come running of the leaves. As autumn is in effect, the deer have started switching to their gray winter coats. Treebark, however, never gets a winter coat, and is brown year-round. This would accentuate the fact that he?s really a pony, and could be verbally mentioned at some point in the episode and could allow for a ?you have

        Flurshy three days? type of suspense.

        Flurshy Twilight and Fluttershy are both warning the animals of WTW that it's time to hunker down/clear out for the running of the leaves. (Twilight was curious about the experience) They come across a deer camp, and are at first confused. Actually, Fluttershy's seen deer camps before, and knows who to talk to. This is a new deer tribe, though, that Shy's never encountered, and when they meet the cheif, hi

        Flurshy s son, Treebark, happens to be present. Twilight, of course, freaks out.

        Flurshy Treebark is weirded out a little, and curious. He asks his father, and his father lets him go out to learn about pony society with a promise to return before they clear out three days later. The rest of the story would be: Showing ponyville (song), then learning about the imperfections of society etc, the strange customs (Why doorknobs if we can't turn them?) and weird stuff like that, good times f

        Flurshy or cultural gags.

        Flurshy While Treebark's with RD and AJ (or something) Twilight and Fluttershy get into a disagreement over whether he should be convinced to stay in ponyville or given the choice to stay with family. Treebark walks in on this, reveals he's starting to dislike pony society for the most part, even considering its good aspects. Perhaps after this he runs off, TW and FS follow to his tribe, and his father cou

        Flurshy ld deliver the moral.

        Alquire It doesn't matter. My eyes are prepared.

        Alquire Oh fuck.

        Robo-Hobo       I did basically paraphrese the outline in my pastebin if you want a more complete version, but it's underdeveloped.

        Robo-Hobo       oh

        Robo-Hobo       readan time

        Flurshy Warned you. Take your time reading, I didn't have time to shorten it

        Alquire Ok.

        wreckingfist    Alright, read it. Why do you prefer this concept Flur? What are it's merits to you?

        Robo-Hobo       Yup, i'm done.

        Alquire To me it would be, what could be the most important aspects of your idea?

        Flurshy The most important aspects...

        Flurshy To be completely honest... I'm not sure.

        Alquire Neither was i before Wrecking asked me what i liked of my story.

        Alquire Come on, take your time.

        Flurshy I like the idea of emphasizing how strange some pony customs are, such as doorknobs. That would be great for keeping the mood light

        Flurshy yet, it would still be building up to "I don't like this society"

        Flurshy it would also use /both/ settings to much of their potential

        Flurshy I think if nothing else is taken from this, though, the use of Running of the Leaves as a way to find the deer would be what I want gained at the least

        Flurshy umm... I think that's all.

        wreckingfist    Now, here is a question

        wreckingfist    How would you fit all of this into 22 minutes?

        Flurshy the deer camp would first be encountered right before the cut to theme. the meeting would be dialogue in act one, but showing him ponyville could be a song (as many would like)

        wreckingfist    Hm.

        Flurshy note: let's have someone log this entire meeting, shall we?

        wreckingfist    Not it

        Robo-Hobo       not it

        Flurshy not it

        Robo-Hobo       Flur, you're our resident techno-wizard.

        Flurshy alright~

        Alquire I already gathered some ideas. Though, i would like to actually everyone to gather most of the ideas you like.

        Alquire You know, for science.

        Flurshy I'm kinda enchanted by the illusion of having the best pitch right now, so...

        wreckingfist    Alright, now that we all have our cards on the table, I suppose we can go ahead and begin finding cracks, expressing our critiques, and overall being organized assholes to one another.

        Alquire I liked being an organized asshole.

        Robo-Hobo       Sounds good.

        Robo-Hobo       Shall we start with wrecking's?

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: The main problem I see with your script is that it tries forcing two parallel plots, and at the same time tries to force in too much padding with ponyville jokes. Our main draw to both of our outlines are Spike and Treebark's relationship. If anything, it sounds like the parts with the deer would be akin to the Equestria Games episode.

        wreckingfist    Which, in my opinion, was not that great an episode.

        Alquire As i said some time before, i would like to get togheter my script and wrecking, can i, wrecking?

        Alquire ago*

        wreckingfist    You mean combine them?

        Alquire I would like to test some things.

        Alquire But yes.

        wreckingfist    Well, before you do, I suppose I should get off my chest, full on, why I hate ponyville being a setting and why I find trying to combine the two is asinine.

        Alquire Ok.

        wreckingfist    Whenever I see a writer express "Why not both?" for settings, I find it difficult to understand how they don't realize that it forces the scenario into a moot point. When you include Ponyville, the focus will immediatly be ponyville in the script. It will be about how deer see pone society, and, as said before, just be a tarzan trope. And no matter how you try to 'combine' the two, the...

        wreckingfist    ...result tends to be exactly the same as any concept that focuses on ponyville. Whitetail woods stops becoming the focal point, and Ponyville takes center stage.

        Flurshy Would you mind a retort to that?

        wreckingfist    By all means.

        Alquire May i ask why making Ponyville the place to develop the story? Because what you said it's that it would just look like "tarzan".

        Alquire Missed a few things there.

        Alquire May i ask why making Ponyville the place to develop the story a wrong place?*

        Flurshy I'm defending my own pitch here. In my pitch, ponyville /would/ be the main setting. Actually... what's wrong with a tarzan trope?

        wreckingfist    One moment Flurshy. I will retort after replying to Alquire

        Flurshy mhmm

        wreckingfist    Alquire: The reason I find it the wrong place is that it strips away the one thing that makes Treebark's character interesting: His identity. And for most concepts, it seems that in order for him to want to go to Ponyville, he must figure out who he is by the first act, which strains the character and makes him less interesting, and causes the story to focus more on "gee ponies are weird...

        wreckingfist    ...huh?" jokes and gags, which, as said, just feels like padding.

        wreckingfist    Flurshy: What's wrong with the tarzan trope is that the tarzan trope normally works because you see it from the perspective of the wild.

        Alquire And you think that being alone with a dragon in the forest makes it a better place to develop the story why? Because i, in my opinion, would like to actually develop the story of Treebark actually interacting with ponies -- he can't knows what a pony is just thinking about it.

        wreckingfist    Both the books and the movie focused on how Tarzan grew up, how he was found by the gorillas, how he lived, how he survived.

        Flurshy I think he might be insanely curious about these 'ponies'

        wreckingfist    That is what made his self discovery interesting.

        Flurshy not really considering that he's a pony, but curious about the ponies he now sees

        Alquire ^

        wreckingfist    That seems more like forcing the character to be interested rather than him being naturally interested

        Flurshy hmm.

        wreckingfist    Also, let me pause for a moment to respond to Alquire

        Alquire The character it's still not stabilished, you can't force something it's not even created.

        Alquire He can be way too curious, or just a cunt, depending on the script we agree with.

        wreckingfist    One moment.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: Isolation is what sparks interesting development. Bringing the example back, Tarzan did not learn he was a human by being surrounded by them, he learned by deeply connecting with one, and being able to see the similarities. It gave his discovery weight.

        Alquire In fact, he was just confused as fuck if he's really an ape, until humans arrived and teached him what he really was.

        Flurshy so we want to set it in WTW, yes?

        wreckingfist    The ponies themselves are of course important, but it feels too suffocating to have them all showing him around ponyville. It feels fake, false even, and once more, feels like it would just be Equestria Games again, and we remember how cringeworthy that was.

        Alquire I don't, i haven't seen that episode.

        Alquire Anyway, with the point...

        wreckingfist    Essentially the ponies give a pony a tour of Crystal Empire

        wreckingfist    Pretty much as predictable as you would think.

        Flurshy Robo-Hobo: you there?

        Robo-Hobo       I am, watching and thinking.

        Alquire Socrates would be proud.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: He was confused, but also felt like he belonged with the apes, as he had proved his worth to them before. Treebark, as I see it, is the same way

        wreckingfist    How I see treebark is a child who is sure of his place in society, but also has that sense of confusion. Why do his parents overbear him? Why carve antlers for him if he'll grow them anyway? It causes him to be rebellious, but still love his family dearly.

        Flurshy Alright you three, I'd like to propose a question

        wreckingfist    Heh, deerly

        Robo-Hobo       Go ahead, flur

        Flurshy firstly, after wrecking's points, Alquire, do you still want ponyville used as a setting?

        Alquire Yes, i want, but i want to develop my arguments.

        Flurshy continue, then.

        wreckingfist    I would like to hear your reasons, yes.

        Alquire First of all, as you said, ponies are important, but there is no ponies in the woods. And, it feels suffocating if you want to write it like that.

        Alquire And as i said before, my "premise" it's more like a plot-devide -- It might take a part in the story, but not the whole 22 minutes.

        wreckingfist    Suffocating?

        Alquire That's what you writted before.

        Alquire ", but it feels too suffocating to have them [...]"

        wreckingfist    I did, but the reason I said suffocating is because there would be too much going on, too many characters shoved into TB's face.

        Alquire How many would be?

        wreckingfist    Your use of the word is a bit out of place, as having fewer ponies would actually give major focus to TB

        Alquire I'm not thinking of adding the whole Ponyville in the screen.

        wreckingfist    I only have 4 ponies in mind.

        wreckingfist    As said, RD, Twi, AJ, and Rarity.

        Flurshy Rarity?

        Alquire I have the main 6, spike, treebark, and treebark's family in mind. In the WHOLE episode.

        wreckingfist    Well the 'tour' scenario tends to shove a lot of characters into the space, with TB being the focal point for all of them

        wreckingfist    Which would make it suffocating

        wreckingfist    Flurshy: Yes, Rarity.

        Flurshy I see your point

        Alquire Only if you want to write it like that.

        Flurshy has a crazy idea, when you're ready for it.

        wreckingfist    Then you don't want to have a tour of ponyville?

        Robo-Hobo       Shoot, flur.

        wreckingfist    Go ahead

        Alquire Kind of, but not having all the ponies in it, it's -- as you said, suffocating.

        Flurshy If we have the entire thing in WTW, we could have a spike-TB duet.

        Alquire And i don't even think that it should be a major part in the story.

        Alquire Using a whole episode for a walk it's boring.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: I don't think you understand what suffocating means dude.

        Robo-Hobo       Spike doesn't have s singing voice.

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: Not true

        wreckingfist    Spike has sung before

        Alquire I know in spanish, oh well, i think i just don't know how to apply it in English.

        Flurshy he does from the Fail-Success song

        wreckingfist    And can do it pretty well

        Robo-Hobo       He has. but it was awful.

        Alquire ^

        wreckingfist    And yes Flurshy, I would love a TB/Spike duet

        Robo-Hobo       I couldn't sit through that song.

        Flurshy looks like we're split on that one, will have to go in the notes

        wreckingfist    Do keep in mind Robo and Al, we're not using the official VA

        wreckingfist    So for all we know, we can find someone who can pull off singing spike very well. Don't snuff out the concept just yet

        Robo-Hobo       I'm saying the character, spike, doesn't have a good singing voice, not the VA.

        wreckingfist    I thought he sang pretty well

        wreckingfist    Not as good as twi

        Flurshy again, we're split

        wreckingfist    But then again he sang like three words on the same note

        Flurshy we can discuss it in more detail if we decide on WTW

        Robo-Hobo       Anyway, songs are besides the point.

        wreckingfist    This is true

        Flurshy back to the setting discussion

        wreckingfist    Alright, as I was saying earlier, having fewer ponies does the exact opposite of suffocation: It gives the characters breathing room.

        wreckingfist    I've told Robo this before, the ponyville section of most concepts feel so cramped because it's less about Treebark and more about padding with jokes. The ponies talk down to TB, as he is a child, and essentially coddle him throughout the second act without much of a break.

        wreckingfist    In WTWs, he can be away from the pones if he needs to be in the script. He has free reign and breathing room to speak for himself

        wreckingfist    And with Spike, he has someone he can speak to on an equal level

        Robo-Hobo       That's part of the point. In the end they learn that they shouldn't act like that.

        wreckingfist    But it's also my point that it would not exactly be fun to watch. Not only that, but it neglets TB's story almost entierly. Hell as you said in your script, he almost immediatly figures out he's a pony

        wreckingfist    What's the point of giving him antlers? Having a character struggle?

        wreckingfist    There really is none, unless you do the whole 'drag him to ponyville' idea, which is out of the question

        Alquire I think you haven't thought of the enough possibilities of having the script being fleshed out in Ponyville. And you also misunderstood my script, or i just didn't explained myself.

        Alquire Anyway, you seem to be very confused.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: I could say the same with you honestly.

        Flurshy I like wrecking's points

        Flurshy he seems to know what he's talking about, in fact

        Alquire No, i have read your script, and i tried to develop my own story in the woods.

        Alquire I just can't imagine something happening in the woods.

        Flurshy that's a matter of imagination, I think

        Alquire More than just "Who i am" questions, is that really entertainment?

        wreckingfist    Alquire: Then perhaps you have not thought of the possibilities there.

        wreckingfist    Because I certianly have.

        Alquire So do i, with Ponyville.

        Flurshy Robo, what do you think?

        wreckingfist    I think it honestly boils down to Ponyville being an episode revolving around characters interacting with the enviorment, while the WTW is characters interacting to eachother.

        Alquire I, some time ago, made an argument of what i thought of why it shouldn't be developed in the woods.

        Robo-Hobo       Wrecking has some eloquent points, but I don't agree with them.

        Alquire I'll post a pastebin.

        Robo-Hobo       Please do.

        wreckingfist    You say that as if I have not done the same Alquire

        wreckingfist    For I too

        wreckingfist    have a pastebin

        wreckingfist    HAVE AT YOU

        Alquire http://pastebin.com/6JbFszPP

        Alquire >I think it honestly boils down to Ponyville being an episode revolving around characters interacting with the enviorment, while the WTW is characters interacting to eachother.

        Alquire Well then you haven't seen all the potential.

        Alquire Maybe just as i haven't seen the potential of the script going in the woods.

        wreckingfist    http://pastebin.com/fPKLbB9A

        Flurshy I see ways to introduce TB to ponies while staying at the deer camp, even.

        Flurshy there could be a discussion between Twilight/FS and REdwood without TB's presence, where he asks them to show him what ponies are like -but don't take him from the camp-

        Robo-Hobo       One concern I have over wrecking's idea is that I'm not sure it'll fill 22 minutes.

        Flurshy in this idea, Redwood might also be the one /learning/ the freiendship lesson

        Flurshy I looked over wrecking's original pitch and I don't think it even made sense, actually

        Flurshy I'm just talking about a WTW-setting

        Flurshy which I'm all for now

        Alquire One of the concerns i have for wrecking's idea is that i don't know what more, aside from discussing "what is real", could be done in the forest.

        wreckingfist    Alright, reading your points Alquire, I must say that you honestly don't seem to give good points. The main argument is that Treebark would need to be around ponies to be able to connect with himself. But that's easily done in WTW. It's called the mane six(or whoever comes along) meeting TB themselves.

        Alquire But the same can be done in god damn Ponyville.

        wreckingfist    Actually no, it can't

        Alquire Oh god, why we have to go for all this? The same things that can be done in the woods CAN be done in Ponyville.

        Flurshy if we have it in ponyville, we'll be having more scenery changes than we need

        Flurshy which will waste time and clutter the episode

        wreckingfist    Alquire, imagine you're at a con, and your favorite celebrity is there.

        Flurshy it would be far easier to develop a script that's leisurely in WTW

        Alquire I already know that story, wrecking.

        wreckingfist    Then you understand my point.

        Alquire Yes, i do.

        Alquire But you seem to just go for a different way for the script than mine.

        Alquire That's it.

        wreckingfist    As well, I do understand your plight when it comes to this being a spike episode, but do keep in mind, in all of my scripts, and all of my dialogue, I never said it would be 100% directed at spike the entire time. For the episode to be a 'spike' episode, it instead has to present a conflict for him, have him get clear screentime, and become a better person after said conflict.

        wreckingfist    This is all easily done. Hell people noted that it was interesting how it 'comes out of left feild' near the end of the story, like a plot twist.

        Flurshy Robo, input. What don't you agree with/

        Robo-Hobo       Wrecking, what "come's out of left field"?

        Robo-Hobo       comes*

        wreckingfist    The moment where RD says the line that upsets Spike

        Robo-Hobo       ok

        wreckingfist    Until then, the scenario essentially was just Spike and TB bonding, then TB meeting AJ, learning about ponies, then meeting up with his family and the other pones

        wreckingfist    RD discovers TB, puts two and two together, and then conflict begins.

        wreckingfist    So until that point, Spike has screentime, but it isn't obviously a spike episode

        wreckingfist    It might not show him all the time, but it would still be classified as one, even though RD would also learn a lesson here herself.

        Robo-Hobo       I think the issue lies here. I don't think this should be a spike episode.

        wreckingfist    So you don't want spike to learn anything?

        Robo-Hobo       He should feature heavily, as a sympathetic character to treebark, but he's not got a huge amount to learn from this situation, imo.

        |<--    Flurshy has left irc.canternet.org:6669 (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

        wreckingfist    He actually does

        wreckingfist    Also noooo Flur

        Robo-Hobo       He's more experienced in living with those that are not of his kind than TB is, in my mind.

        wreckingfist    Spike is, as said, insecure as fuck. He lives in female dominated society, is essentially a handmaiden, and when he actually tried to learn about his people, all he saw were dicks that he had to fake being tough with to be cool, so ponies were essentially the only option for him.

        wreckingfist    Not true, both have the exact same situation

        wreckingfist    They were born and raised into it

        =-=     Mode #privatemeeting -i by Robo-Hobo

        Alquire And you think that talking with a dragon makes Treebark know better about ponies?

        wreckingfist    No, it helps him know better about fitting in.

        Alquire Has he even met ponies before he talks to spike?

        wreckingfist    Spike is the first person he talks to before AJ comes around, yep.

        Alquire So, Treebark is all gullible with somebody who knows a shit about?

        wreckingfist    Never said he was gullible

        wreckingfist    Why on earth would he be?

        Alquire Does Spike tells him he's a pony?

        Robo-Hobo       But spike has known exactly what he is, and how he's different, for his entire life. TB has felt different, but because he sees himself as a strange deer. When he finds out that maybe he's not that abnormal he's looking forward to the possibility of finding a place he might fit into perfectly.

        wreckingfist    Spike calls him one at first, but TB's retort about who he 'really is' helps Spike understand the situation.

        Robo-Hobo       Went on a bi of a tangen there.

        Robo-Hobo       tangent*

        Robo-Hobo       bit*

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: So you imply that he wants to leave his family.

        Robo-Hobo       fuck

        Robo-Hobo       He at least is enthusiastic to go and check out this place.

        Alquire Again, why Spike, a baby dragon, should make doubt things to treebark?

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        =-=     Mode #privatemeeting +qo Flttrshy Flttrshy by ChanServ

        Alquire I would say "You're just kidding" and leave him.

        Flttrshy        I need everything I missed, starting with the last message I sent

        Alquire That's why ponies should be included.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: You might want to rewrite that. It makes it very difficult to understand you.

        Flttrshy        can someone copypaste to me in query?

        Alquire Why treebark is in doubt with what spike says?

        Robo-Hobo       flur http://pastebin.com/jSUTKJ4d

        wreckingfist    Alquire: As with you saying 'he'd just leave him', why would he do that? Spike is something he never saw before. He could find him 'interesting', and want to chat with him. Of course Treebark would not doubt himself after one moment like that, but it sets him up for Spike to understand what TB is going through.

        wreckingfist    I think you are getting a bit confused Alquire.

        Alquire No, i think you're just trying to fix a loop hole in your script.

        wreckingfist    Not at all, I am saying what is going on.

        wreckingfist    I never said TB immediatly doubted himself.

        Alquire Then i'll keep asking.

        wreckingfist    Ask away.

        Flttrshy        I'd like to ask again. What are our current stances on setting?

        wreckingfist    Al and I are butting heads pretty feirce.

        Alquire Okay, now, why Spike is more 'interesting' than meeting a pony?

        wreckingfist    Alquire: because he's the first character TB meets, and is a dragon.

        Flttrshy        Please, just... state your preferred setting so I know how we stand

        Robo-Hobo       I think it's the same as always.

        Flttrshy        split, again?

        wreckingfist    I am still for WTW, Al here is still for Ponyville.

        Robo-Hobo       p'ville.

        Alquire He's the first character TB meets in yours script.

        wreckingfist    Yep, he sure is.

        Flttrshy        What if I... as director... give director voice in saying it should be Whitetail Woods?

        Alquire Now, what do you think it would be more revealing to him? meeting a Dragon? or meeting a Pony?

        wreckingfist    We're talking about my script and Spike's relationship with TB Alquire. Why are you trying to change the subject?

        Flttrshy        I wasn't, I just haven't changed /my/ subject yet

        wreckingfist    No I am talking to Al, Flttrshy, lol

        Flttrshy        oh

        Alquire No, i am talking of what the premise shall be, and the scripts in general.

        Flttrshy        well, what if I give direction in saying Whitetail Woods? since we might not come to an agreement otherwise

        Alquire Anyway, i'm just saying, why it should be more interesting than meeting a pony?

        wreckingfist    Personally, I am all for WTW. This conversation has seemed to divulge into Alquire trying to say that ponies would be a better character to first meet than spike, which I disagree with. It'd be better to delay the introduction.

        Alquire Bingo.

        Alquire And no, we have 22 minutes, not 2 hours.

        wreckingfist    What the hell are you talking about?

        Alquire >delay the introduction

        Flttrshy        Robo?

        Alquire Your script seems to be something too long, after you fleshed it out.

        wreckingfist    Yeah, give Spike and TB a scene together.

        Flttrshy        Can I do that?

        Robo-Hobo       I'd say no.

        wreckingfist    How is that two hours?

        Alquire Not literally, but it seems to be more than we need it to be.

        Robo-Hobo       I want it set at least partly in p'ville, but I want to convince wrecking rather than pull rank.

        Flttrshy        I'm of the other side of the coin

        wreckingfist    Alquire: I don't see how it would be over 22 minutes. It flows pretty damn well as it is.

        Flttrshy        I want it to be in Whitetail Woods

        Flttrshy        hmm...

        wreckingfist    Sorry if it seems I am ignoring you two, Flttrshy and Robo-Hobo, I am just trying to understand what Alquire is saying.

        Robo-Hobo       take you time.

        Flttrshy        Robo, what are your reasons for wanting ponyville?

        Flttrshy        wreckingfist: is fine, we can hold a double-conversation

        Alquire What i say, it's that after all, i kindly don't like your version of the script -- I like some of the ideas you have in it, but i'm not willing to have the whole script inside.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: I apologize if this seems rude, but at this point it sounds more like you are just trying to find a reason not to use my concept, rather than have legit arguments.

        Flttrshy        Alquire: Question. is his script the reason you don't want it all in the woods?

        wreckingfist    And I am all for editing my script, but the basic concept is sound. It's why I worked with it.

        Alquire No, it's not, the script in fact seems to be perfect for an episode.

        Alquire But i somehow dislike the idea of it being developed in the woods.

        wreckingfist    So you don't have an actual reason.

        Alquire More than having it being developed in the woods.

        Flttrshy        no, it means he has a reason, but he can't pin it down

        Alquire If i say you must make it in Ponyville, your whole script is ruined, that's the problem.

        Alquire But you rather don't seem to take what it could be done in Ponyville.

        Robo-Hobo       Well first, I think that introducing a pony that doesn't know of pony life and then not having him go to ponyville seems like a wasted opportunity to see his reaction.

        Flttrshy        but then the entire episode would /be/ his reaction

        Alquire No, it's not.

        wreckingfist    Which, in the end, would just make it padding.

        Alquire God damn it, visiting ponyville it's NOT the whole episode.

        Robo-Hobo       Flttr, have you read my outline?

        Flttrshy        No

        Flttrshy        I did read your pitch

        Robo-Hobo       Please do. http://pastebin.com/UeQ32WDA

        wreckingfist    I don't want to see him marvel at ponyville, as that WOULD be the meat of the episode, as much as you may try to deny it. robo, I still do enjoy your script, but at the same time the flaws are very clear within it.

        wreckingfist    And if you want me to repost them, I can.

        Robo-Hobo       It should be revised so that TB runs away and spike follows him. it's what I originally had, but I thought I'd be teaching kids "if you aren't getting enough attention then you should run away from home."

        Flttrshy        I have to go now

        Alquire Ok, bye, take care.

        wreckingfist    Later!

        Robo-Hobo       Wrecking, It'd be the meat of act 2. And anything that's going on during those scenes can be the focus depending on how we write it.

        Robo-Hobo       bye!

        Flttrshy        if you continue, one of you will have to pick up on logging

        Flttrshy        gnight

        =-=     Mode #privatemeeting +I Flurshy!*@* by Flttrshy

        |<--    Flttrshy has left irc.canternet.org:6669 (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference)

        Robo-Hobo       Continue?

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: And as said, it is still the reason why I dislike it.

        wreckingfist    If you wish. I can do this all night.

        Robo-Hobo       ok, can someone log?

        wreckingfist    Doing so

        Robo-Hobo       ok.

        wreckingfist    The ponies in this script still feel like salesmares, trying to effectivly con the Deer out of their son while putting on a spectacle, ironically completely ignoring treebark. I am all for the girls being ignorant or being flawed, but overall this feels very out of character for them. I cannot fathom the ponies NOT paying attention to TB, especially ones like Rarity or Pinkie.

        wreckingfist    It has that Mare Do Well or that Trixie episode vibe where the ponies essentially act like assholes for the sake of the plot

        Robo-Hobo       Let's try something new.

        Robo-Hobo       What if we scrap both the spike feels idea, and the showing TB civilisation idea, and go with "Mane6 assuming TB thinks he's a deer, but he knows he's a pony all along." as the basis for the plot.

        Alquire But that's like, not our story, or at least not the one at least have in mind.

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: Why?

        Robo-Hobo       It's not, but we can't reach an agreement about what we have.

        wreckingfist    No, we can.

        Alquire I meant to reply to wrecking with the salesmares example, by the way.

        wreckingfist    As said, I can do this all night, and I am willing to listen to every reason and every retort to get a good conclusion to this.

        Alquire We can't just reach an agreement, we both have our own ideas of what could be the perfect episode.

        wreckingfist    Alquire: Well, how about this.

        Alquire After all, you have your opinions of what could it be, and i have mine.

        wreckingfist    Right now I see major flaws in your story, BIG ones. But if you can show me how said flaws can be removed, then by all means show me.

        Alquire By my story, you mean the outline i had in the pastebin?

        wreckingfist    Right now you guys have simply dismissed my story because you just don't agree with it.

        wreckingfist    But I legit want to see good in yours

        wreckingfist    If that's the one you want to use, yeah

        wreckingfist    I want to reread it

        Alquire Neither i liked that one, seems to forced, didn't even had time to develop it properly or to fix the forced details of it because of RL stuff.

        Alquire Now, if i write another outline and give it to you tomorrow, could you read it?

        wreckingfist    I can, but as of right now, neither of you have given me a compelling argument.

        wreckingfist    So I want to see what you got Alquire

        wreckingfist    Get it ready as soon as you can

        Alquire The only problem i have with your script, it's that i find (again, opinions) is neccessary to add Ponyville in the story, that's all.

        wreckingfist    But it isn't. Even you admitted to that.

        Alquire Not as a major plot device.

        wreckingfist    It becomes more your prefrences rather than weather or not it is a good story.

        Alquire But it would be just wrong if you don't show any of what you're talking about to the one who wants to knows.

        Alquire know*

        wreckingfist    Uh, you might want to rephrase that

        wreckingfist    Cause I didn't understand what you mean

        Alquire It is wrong to don't show anything of what you're talking about. You can't talk to Treebark about the ponies without showing where they live.

        Alquire Or what they do...Or how they do it...

        Alquire Or anything.

        Robo-Hobo       I think he means that it would make more sense to show TB ponyville rather than just talk to him about it.

        Alquire Robo gets it, i'm sorry i don't speak english that good.

        wreckingfist    Why is it nessicary to show Ponyville in the first place then?

        Alquire This is a plant.

        Alquire Can you see it?

        Alquire Do you know how the plant is?

        wreckingfist    No, I want to know the reason

        wreckingfist    Because you're not giving it.

        Alquire That's the reason, you can't talk of something you can't imagine.

        Robo-Hobo       Because he wants to see it. He's curious about his heritage.

        Alquire Yes.

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: That is only if TB learns of who he is immediatly

        wreckingfist    And that pretty much ruins the point of his character

        Robo-Hobo       What is the point of his charater, in youe opinion?

        Alquire Oh god no, one does not simply knows who he is immediately.

        Alquire I'm not saying going to ponyville will be like this:

        Alquire "Some random pony: Youre a pony"

        Alquire "Treebark: I'm ok with that"

        Alquire The end.

        wreckingfist    Then what WOULD it be?

        Alquire Let me get my outline for tomorrow.

        wreckingfist    Because that's ALL I've seen from all of these scripts and your pitches so far.

        Alquire And i'll explain you what could it be.

        Alquire But for now, i'm fucking tired, in fact i shouldn't be this late, i should be waking up in 5 hours for a 8-hour turn tomorrow -- or today, in fact...

        Alquire So good bye, take care.

        Robo-Hobo       g'night

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: To me, Treebark is a character that questions. One that has a free spirit and explores. He has an overprotective father, but that only encourages him to run off out of rebellion. Does he question himself? Yep. Does he think he's different from deer? A bit. But he knows well where he belongs, and to him, his mother and father, reguardless of their protectiveness, are the family he...

        wreckingfist    ...cares about. It would not matter who he is, pony or deer, as he knows where he belongs.

        wreckingfist    Night

        <--|    Alquire has left #privatemeeting

        Robo-Hobo       And how does him finding out that he's a pony early on ruin that?

        wreckingfist    Because it's the reveal that's the major point of the concept.

        wreckingfist    If you just remove that from him, then what's the point?

        wreckingfist    It's the reveal that he does not mind that he's a pony, that even though he's different, he's loved.

        wreckingfist    If you shove that all in there the first act, then there goes his entire character arc.

        wreckingfist    After that it's a mere tug of war between deer and ponies for his affection, like devorced parents.

        Robo-Hobo       The reveal that he is a pony is different to the reveal that he doesn't mind that fact.

        wreckingfist    Yet they are still just as connected.

        wreckingfist    It just makes the rest of the episode in ponyville padding.

        Robo-Hobo       Would you call the scenes from winter wrap up where Twilight tries various ways to help padding?

        wreckingfist    No, because those scenes focused on how she failed at every task without magic, and showed her desparation when she finally used it.

        wreckingfist    And, at the same time, since it was an episode focusing on the mane six with Twi at the helm, it made sense.

        wreckingfist    And it was twi and spike travelling along ponyville to help, not the entire cast making a parade to each stop.

        Robo-Hobo       But having a few scenes of treebark trying various aspects of pony life, getting increasingly disillusioned and frustraded to the point that he runs away would be padding? before getting sick of the

        Robo-Hobo       ha, editing fail.

        wreckingfist    I thought he was being ignored

        wreckingfist    At least in your script

        Robo-Hobo       Not necessarily ignored, they're just unaware of his discomfort.

        wreckingfist    So then he will be coddled during the scenes.

        wreckingfist    And spike will be unable to actually talk to him.

        wreckingfist    Listen Robo, you know that I am more than willing to listen to opinions and compromise, I've done it before. But the reaction to our last compromise made me understand that it has to be one or the other.

        wreckingfist    And as I've said before, I know the flaws of your script just as much as you do, and I also know that most of them can't be fixed simply due to the story's structure.

        Robo-Hobo       spike doesn't really have to talk to him a huge amount. It'd be conveyed with body language and tone when he does actually speak with him.

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: So they won't be talking to eachother, and we won't get actual development from Treebark because of this.

        wreckingfist    Since he can't really talk over the pones.

        Robo-Hobo       Well, personally I think this should be about the mane 6 and their reaction to TB, rather than about TB and spike as a primary focus.

        wreckingfist    I am just trying to figure this out, because it seems like you're adapting your original pitch and going a different direction. Which is dandy, I am just trying to be sure.

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo: So wait, let me get this straight

        wreckingfist    You want the focus to be on the mane six essentially reacting to TB, rather than giving TB character development and fleshing him out.

        wreckingfist    You want TB to be a plot device.

        wreckingfist    Right?

        Robo-Hobo       Yes, albeit one with character.

        wreckingfist    What character?

        Robo-Hobo       A pony that's unsure of himself and his place, because he's living with deer, curious about the ponies he meets, excited about the possibility of a town full of creatures like him, disappointed when he turns out to be a bad fit there, and relieved after a talk with spike to know that he'll always be loved by the deer.

        wreckingfist    So when do they talk, then?

        Robo-Hobo       When he runs away and spike follows.

        Robo-Hobo       A lot of dialogue can fit in 4 minutes.

        wreckingfist    I don't think the dialogue run time really means much.

        wreckingfist    That said, this plot kind of strips everything I initially enjoyed about your revised work.

        wreckingfist    I assume the deer no longer play a part, or are a minor role. Having eight characters interacting at once for every scene is difficult enough, why add another two right?

        Robo-Hobo       This is JUST TB's experience. the other stuff is still going on.

        wreckingfist    Alright

        wreckingfist    So, to put the content down on the table, at least so I can learn if I actually understand it

        Robo-Hobo       It was my response to your question of "what character?"

        Robo-Hobo       Unless i misunderstood.

        wreckingfist    No no, I am more concerned about how this greatly affects your initial concept.

        wreckingfist    With TB now being coddled, as he logically would be in this scenario, it's difficult to really give him any character. As you said, it's just the mane six reacting to him, like a shiny new toy.

        wreckingfist    Plus, it takes away the point of him having his family there. Why bother adding them?

        wreckingfist    And at this rate, you may as well go for the 'no one cares what spike says' running gag.

        wreckingfist    This all still fails at a base level: It's ponies trying to convince TB to leave his family. No matter how you word it, or how much you change the plot, there is no other reason for bringing him there. Well there is, but then there is no conflict when that does occur.

        Robo-Hobo       TB's motivation for going to ponyville will be that he's curious about his heritage and might find somewhere he'll fit in better, the mane 6's motivation for showing him around could be that they love ponyville life and want to share it's delights. The conflict can arise from Redwood being overly touchy about what the ponies say and starts an argument. This is what causes TB to run away.

        Robo-Hobo       Maybe Redwood has an inferiority complex?

        wreckingfist    So there is actually no real conflict with the ponies

        wreckingfist    It's just Redwood?

        Robo-Hobo       It gets around the ponies being cunts.

        wreckingfist    Robo-Hobo, is this trip for him supposed to be for him to learn WHO he is

        wreckingfist    or WHAT he is?

        Robo-Hobo       Who. He learns the what early on, and thinks he may have found somewhere he feels more at home.

        Robo-Hobo       This fact won't come up until the talk with spike though.

        wreckingfist    This sounds a lot more like it's about WHAT he is, Robo, and that's why I am so pissed off about this concept.

        wreckingfist    To quote a friend, the one that did that one clip of treebark

        wreckingfist    "To say that the genes that run through our veins define us as people is one of the most racist things I've ever heard-- on par with telling african american people to go back to africa"

        Robo-Hobo       HE feels that he may have found somewhere he feels more at home, and eventually realises that he's wrong.

        wreckingfist    I think the idea that he does not need to see some pony village to know where he belongs is a far more profound and meaningful message.

        Robo-Hobo       I think that this is boiling down to the fact that you think the episode should be about treebark, while I think it should be about the ponies.

        wreckingfist    It's more than that. It's about ethics, and making a good moral.

        wreckingfist    Treebark, as he is, is a character that could be a profound role model. His situation is like many kids out there. Adopted, feeling different. Yet Treebark, even when he finds out, has the potential to realize that it does not matter if he is a pony or not. And he does not need to see ponyville to realize it.

        Robo-Hobo       This is a very interesting point. I'll mull it over, but for now I'm going to stop. It's 05:24 here and I can feel my brain slowing down.

        wreckingfist    Sure thing.

        wreckingfist    If you change your mind though, I got all night.

        Robo-Hobo       still no agreement, but progress, of a sort.

        Robo-Hobo       np

        wreckingfist    It is progress, because the idea is developing

        wreckingfist    And I think that soon, we will have a breakthrough.