Title:           <ryonaloli> so then, *why* is a dream character not sentient but a tulpa is? <r
Author:          I_wesley125
Pastebin link:   http://pastebin.com/cQ6Pc4VM
First Edit:      Friday 12th of July 2013 10:47:48 PM CDT
Last Edit:       Friday 12th of July 2013 10:47:48 PM CDT

<ryonaloli> so then, *why* is a dream character not sentient but a tulpa is?
<ryonaloli> why is that?
<ryonaloli> just because a tulpa seems more realistic?
<Wesley> Well truth is we don't really know
<ryonaloli> an AI program might pass the turing test and seem realistic, that doesn't mean it's a human
<bonmilri> ryonaloli: i'd say, yeah, pretty much
<Wesley> My take is a tulpa shares the same "consciousness" as the host, but from an alternate perspective
<bonmilri> it doesn't need to be human to deserve rights
<ryonaloli> exactly, because it "seems more realistic".
<ryonaloli> yeah, same as DID
<ryonaloli> so is taking medication for DID genicide?
<Wesley> Well this may share some of the same technical aspects of DID
<Rylai> it's not so much 'seems more realistic' as they have the ability to have cognitive experiences
<ryonaloli> Rylai: how can you tell?
<ryonaloli> an AI can seem to have actual cognitive experiences
<ryonaloli> look on wikipedia for "philisophical zombie"
<Wesley> I knew a guy who had DID and refused to take meds because they helped him
<Rylai> i'm aware of philosophical zombie
<Wesley> His DID people I mean
<Rylai> that reminds me that i should have signed up for a philosophy course
<Wesley> whatever you'd call them
<ryonaloli> Wesley: that makes sense, but to practically lynch a guy cuz he wants to take meds is different
* Uber has quit (Quit: Leaving)
<Rylai> oh well perhaps next semester
<Rylai> hmm, "how can you tell", i am having a hard time putting it into words i guess
<ryonaloli> so you see my dilema?  i'm being told to believe, to "just believe" that a dissociated identity is "separate" from me, even though it's nothing more than a voluntary, structured version of disorganized schizophrenia + DID
<Wesley> Either way, I'd suggest making a tulpa (if you don't plan on abusing it) and see for yourself
<ryonaloli> but no one wants that, because if i "see for myself" and don't agree that it's alive, apparently i'll be forced to live my whole life as a slave to it just because ignoring it apparently is a horrible sin
<Wesley> Even if you're not convinced you can still have a tulpa
<ryonaloli> and hell, you invite me in this channel just to try and insult me.  what does that tell me about the mental state of this "community"
<Wesley> bleh
<ryonaloli> Wesley: but if i get a tulpa, i'm stuck with the problem of living with it forever
<Wesley> mob mentality and such shit
<ryonaloli> or "killing it"
<ryonaloli> i haven't ever seen such mob mentality on rizon, ever
<ryonaloli> and i've done a LOOOOT of things to get a mob on me
<Wesley> I don't have too much of an issue "killing it" if you and them agree
<ryonaloli> but apparently they won't agre
<ryonaloli> e
<Wesley> Yeah well people tend to overreact here
<Wesley> A lot
<ryonaloli> because it's horribly painful
<ryonaloli> or as i see it...
<Wesley> Not nessecarily
<ryonaloli> i think it will be painful
<ryonaloli> so i see the hallucination acting like it's in pain
<Wesley> necessarily*
<ryonaloli> even though it's just my subconscious trying to tell me what i think i'll see
<Wesley> Not if you don't expect it to happen
<ryonaloli> right
<ryonaloli> but everyone here expects it too
<Wesley> No they don't
<bonmilri> they do?
<ryonaloli> and that's the issue with close mindedness
<ryonaloli> they don't? wat
<Wesley> Not really
<bonmilri> i wouldn't expect that, no
<ryonaloli> well that's what happened
<Wesley> One guy agreed to dissipate his tulps and nobody held it against him
<Wesley> His tulps were fine with it
<ryonaloli> well i didn't know that, and obviously no one was willing to tell me
<ryonaloli> well, i'm not even sure i CAN make a tulpa
<Wesley> why is that?
<bonmilri> also there are a few people who have merged with their tulpas, and that seems pretty well accepted
<Wesley> mmm hmm
<ryonaloli> Wesley: i had a long conversatino with someone else, who was trying to help me start on a tulpa.  the main problem is that i cannot get to the stage where they act on their own in any way, because i
<ryonaloli> *i'm always "telling" them to do something
<ryonaloli> but i already have a very detailed character down in every way, looks, personality, etc
<ryonaloli> and i've practically been in my own paraverse for over 10 years
<Wesley> That is the issue with paroting
<Wesley> I'm not an expert on that
<ryonaloli> the only step remaining is having the image of my tulpa (or thought of it) do something on it's own
<ryonaloli> ah
<Wesley> I'd ask NLD
<ryonaloli> NLD?
<bonmilri> RaidenLD
<Wesley> Yeah
<ryonaloli> why?
<ryonaloli> he knows how to fix that problem?
<Wesley> He has more experience than me
<ryonaloli> oh
<ryonaloli> >there is no such nickname RaidenLD
<ryonaloli> whois failed
<bonmilri> imo the whole idea of making a tulpa is to get in the habit of thinking "what would $tulpa do" and imagining them doing it, until you get to the point where you do it automatically all the time without having to think about it
<bonmilri> sorry, he's RaidenLD|Jamie right now
<ryonaloli> bonmilri: i can already do that
<ryonaloli> and they can act mostly on their own
<bonmilri> changes nicks a lot based on which tulpa is proxying and such
<ryonaloli> but it NEVER has surprised me
<bonmilri> hmm
<Wesley> Yeah a lot of people have thati ssue
<Wesley> Including myself
<ryonaloli> ah
<ryonaloli> how did you get passed it?
<Wesley> You just do
<Wesley> It gets lesser
<Wesley> I'm not 100% past it right now but it's mostly gone