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Anonymous #1318484 2 months ago

lul

Anonymous #1318492 2 months ago

Irrelevant. I have a new god now, and it's ponies.

Anonymous #1318495 2 months ago

see, this is the proof i was talking about for everyone making fun of me. laugh no you perverts.

Hydroftt #1318496 2 months ago

lol

Anonymous #1318500 2 months ago

dude, I'm Mexican I have no soul, so wathever!!! :D

Harlequin_Jester #1318511 2 months ago

PipMan #1318513 2 months ago

People still believe in God? Okay then.

Saint_Braeburn #1318517 2 months ago

There's a difference between wanting to have sex with a fictional cartoon creature and actually having sex with an animal in real life.

Anonymous #1318520 2 months ago

>implying most of us would want to fuck an actual horse >implying any of us could have sex with a woman >implying all of us are christians

Anonymous #1318522 2 months ago

Are you the same anon from that thread? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE CONTEXT OR WHAT DO THESE PASSAGES MEAN?

Anonymous #1318524 2 months ago

Save us Jebus!!!!!

Anonymous #1318528 2 months ago

Wait, god wants you to kill the animal because the animal was raped? Way to blame the victim, god. Douchebag.

Takashi_0 #1318530 2 months ago

OP, dipshits like you are the reason everyone hates the Religious. Fuck off.

Anonymous #1318532 2 months ago

522 i am same anon and i am proving the truth

Coo #1318537 2 months ago

Do i care?? no, then FUCK OFF!

Takashi_0 #1318548 2 months ago

ECO! DO SOMETHING USEFUL FOR ONCE AND BAN THIS IDIOT!

MrFox #1318549 2 months ago

liquidXTC #1318550 2 months ago

"and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions." (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)

Saint_Braeburn #1318551 2 months ago

Ok, there is a 9/10 chance that this Anon is a troll trying to cause a religious shitstorm. Please, let's just ignore him.

XXLPlakat #1318556 2 months ago

I am a christian but this... wow.. this is ridiculous.

Anonymous #1318559 2 months ago

@8551 - no way, religious shitstorms are the best shitstorms.

sigh #1318560 2 months ago

@Liquid Man, those Egyptians really had it going on, didn't they?

Anonymous #1318565 2 months ago

why are you still laughing? I understand that pervert athiest will make fun of the truth but if you are christian and laughing then you are falling behind in your goal of spreading the truth. it's not funny!

Arne #1318566 2 months ago

I, for one, enjoy being a godless heathen.

liquidXTC #1318567 2 months ago

Eeyup.

Anonymous #1318578 2 months ago

You know, I've never clopped in my life. But I think I'm gonna rub one out to a picture of Scootaloo just for this guy.

Saint_Braeburn #1318580 2 months ago

@Anon565 Because there are only two people in the world, Christans and atheists. Right.

liquidXTC #1318592 2 months ago

Saint, that's not true. Take me, I'm worshipping Satan.

Anonymous #1318595 2 months ago

578: Scootalovin' - *HOO!*

sigh #1318600 2 months ago

We're Christian and laughing because you're crusading ON THE INTERNET. Either you're incredibly young or just stupid, but you're not going to convince someone to change their life by ranting and shoving images in people's faces.

Anonymous #1318606 2 months ago

What about clopping to pony jesus

Anonymous #1318609 2 months ago

i won't change anybody sigh but jesus can and if you really believe he will make it happen through you. you need to have more fathe

Anonymous #1318613 2 months ago

>troll makes a christian thread acting like an illiterate moron >christian haters flock the thread insulting christian beliefs >all christians ends up looking like assholes This is why I love the internet. /sarcasm

Anonymous #1318616 2 months ago

*faith

Anonymous #1318628 2 months ago

i'm not a troll. i quote the actual bible you are the troll.

CottonTales #1318630 2 months ago

Way to kill the victim dude the animal had no say in it

JasonTheHuman #1318635 2 months ago

And someone is going to end up clopping to that Jesus pony. Why? Because this is the Internet.

Anonymous #1318642 2 months ago

jason the human that is disgusing and exactly what i talked about. the fact that people would do that. jesus is pure and ponies are pure so that's why i like both. people would do that it just shows how sick our world is. that's why we need to fight

Anonymous #1318656 2 months ago

Or you could turn the other cheek and render unto Celestia, jerkstore.

Takashi_0 #1318666 2 months ago

@OP:

Arne #1318675 2 months ago

Or, you could let other people do what they want and not try and ram your beliefs down their throats... that's an option. A pretty damn good one if you ask me.

Anonymous #1318678 2 months ago

i like this show and don't turn celestia into an idol. she is not real god. she is just their princess and not real. this is serious.

Saint_Braeburn #1318682 2 months ago

@Anon613 YES! This Anon gets it. Thank You!

Takashi_0 #1318690 2 months ago

@OP:

Anonymous #1318692 2 months ago

Christians are by their own definition evil. So why listen to them. Or as a wise people asked the missionaries, "why do you crucify your god?"

marioandsonic #1318699 2 months ago

Religion, lol

Anonymous #1318712 2 months ago

692 he was not crucified by christians but by the jewish who had not yet had the scales removed from their eyes and the corrupt romans. he had to die to save the world. it's not a joke.

sigh #1318714 2 months ago

Wow. You have no idea when people are joking do you?

mindcannon #1318722 2 months ago

Anonymous #1318723 2 months ago

people actually let this shit phase them? They can't see trolling a mile away? lol

Anonymous #1318730 2 months ago

If you are trying to tell me that christianity is true, then I can tell you without a doubt that you are wrong. Whether godlike entities exist is a separate question. But I can unequivocally state that christianity is false.

Anonymous #1318732 2 months ago

@723 - most of us know he's just trolling. But it's so much fun.

mindcannon #1318736 2 months ago

God wanted us to be dumb.

CottonTales #1318759 2 months ago

well I could say I'm wicked because god made me that way god made everything knowing full well what was going to happen he is omniscient isn't he but maybe I'm wrong and maybe anon can explain to me the errors of that thought process

Anonymous #1318760 2 months ago

730 it is true. read your bible and you'll see that it says right there that's it's true. also; it says the world exists floating freely and even history has more proof of jesus than even ceasar (which you athiest-tards thing is true or real) and so you can see it's true. but mostly look in your heart and give up your perversions and you will see him and he will show you the truth and you'll know forever.

sigh #1318762 2 months ago

@Anon730 99% of the forms of Christianity don't actually teach what's in the bible, they just make up their own stuff and confuse the masses with BS so they don't know what's right. I mean really, the Trinity? Not only is that not once mentioned in the Bible, the belief didn't even spring up until a few centuries after Jesus died.

Roboshi #1318772 2 months ago

The Bible also forbids shaving or waring clothes of more than one type of cloth (Ie mixing cotton and wool).

Anonymous #1318774 2 months ago

cotton that is not an excuse you are just influenced by the devil. if you turn to god you will find peace and he will change your heart. i kno it seems hard but if you try it's worth it forever. don't be a pervert

Yorec #1318795 2 months ago

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Mahatma Gandhi. >:D

Anonymous #1318796 2 months ago

that is the old law Roboshi and JESUS fulfilled it so now it's different. it was still a commandment of GOD but when JESUS came he maked it where everyone could be free from sin by his blood and now through acts of sacrifice or following the old law.

Saint_Braeburn #1318797 2 months ago

So, OP what type of Christian are you. Calvinist, Catholic, Anglican, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Lutheran, ect?

Anonymous #1318803 2 months ago

@Sigh I mean christianity from the bible. Noah's Ark, Jonah living in a "great fish" for three days, the tower of Babel. All of these stories are just myths told by bronze aged people desperately trying to understand the world around them. Skip forward to Jesus and you have the same problems. Inconsistency between stories of these "witnesses," false prophecy, extremely bad advice and morals. No sane person can read this and think, "Oh, it must be the work of the one true god!" No. A rational person reads this and says, this is the work of people who just didn't know any better.

Arne #1318804 2 months ago

@Roboshi And it says rape is ok... if you marry the girl afterwards. It also says your should stone disobedient children.

Anonymous #1318812 2 months ago

And the coming of Roboshi fulfilled some other prophecy, replacing your silly, antiquated notions of sexual morality with but one commandment: that we fave everything.

Stampede #1318815 2 months ago

I declare this thread now a GIF dance party.

sigh #1318817 2 months ago

And that's exactly the kind of empty, confusing BS I was talking about. You're not providing real, factual answers for his questions, you're just saying that he should turn to God just because. That's not being a good Christian, that's acting like one and then patting yourself on the back for all the "good" you're doing, despite not knowing any actual facts.

FeralSocks018 #1318818 2 months ago

I'm going to stay as far away from this thread as I possibly can. Byesies!

Saint_Braeburn #1318819 2 months ago

1. @Yorec He didn't actually say that. Check Wikiquote if you don't believe me. 2. Everyone Read what Anon613 Wrote!

Anonymous #1318820 2 months ago

it doesn't matter what type of christian as long as you give your heart to christ. i was raised as a lutheran but have been to babtist churches too. all that matters is JESUS

CottonTales #1318825 2 months ago

@8774 that wasn't an excuse that was a fact I could not be this way if god did not allow it because he is omnipotent and you never explained an error in what I said you copped out I want an answer not an excuse

Saint_Braeburn #1318832 2 months ago

I Mean does anyone really think this guy is some super devote Christian who just happened upon this site? It's A Troll.

Anonymous #1318835 2 months ago

read john 3:16 if you think i'm not giving facts sigh. read your bible. i thought you were smart.

Yorec #1318837 2 months ago

I know Saint, I just wanted to post something equally stupid.

Anonymous #1318840 2 months ago

Yes, and the troll is having fun, and we are having fun, and the troll and the bronies are having fun together.

CottonTales #1318841 2 months ago

@Yorec I love that quote

Shockblock99 #1318845 2 months ago

I am going to post all the pony porn I can get my filthy sinning hands on and then masturbate to a good deal of it. Fundamentalists pick and choose what passages to listen to and espouse because the Bible has contradictory or nonsensical passages. OP is either a troll, a fervant Christian fundie, or really really bad at telling when he's an idiot.

CottonTales #1318854 2 months ago

@Saint_Braeburn Well obviously but I'm bored

Anonymous #1318857 2 months ago

i am not a troll saint and if you don't believe me than read your bible. you will kno i tell the truth

sigh #1318860 2 months ago

What's wrong with the story of the Tower of Babel? I'll concede you the other two since the Bible isn't a science textbook and thus we don't know all the details. Chalk them up to MiRaClEs Yo. Also there's not many inconsistencies with the tales told in the New Testament, just different points of view which will invariably cause small differences here or there. Also there's been a lot of prophecies told by Jesus/other apostles that have come true.

Anonymous #1318881 2 months ago

The Bible would be an excellent piece of Mythology if people didn't actually believe it word-for-word. /AttemptToDerailShitstormIntoAnotherShitstorm

sigh #1318884 2 months ago

@Anon835 Uhh, what about it? You're still not giving actual answers to his questions.

Anonymous #1318886 2 months ago

the stories in the bible are true it's just that man is arrogant and wants to believe that science can explain away truth. yet, science changes their story all the time but the bible is always proved right nad never changed. that's how you know it's the real deal. the tower of babel actually did happen and you can tell because there really was a babylon and they really did build that tower. you just have to have faith that god can do anything. he doesn't work by your standards but his own higher standards.

sigh #1318893 2 months ago

@Anon881 This person speaks truth. Lots of accounts (especially in Revelation, My God is Revalation full of analogies) are not meant to be taken so literally.

Anonymous #1318903 2 months ago

@sigh You're right, the bible is not a book of science. Unless you want to tell me that the origins of life and the genesis tale are one and the same, which I doubt you do. If the most significant of facts about our world contradict the bible, it is safe to say that christianity is untrue. And the fact that you conceded those two stories is enough for me, you can concede the entire bible now, christianity is debunked.

Anonymous #1318905 2 months ago

sigh, you said i don't understand what i say and quote bus but john 3:16 says: John 3:16 New International Version (NIV) 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. so that's all he needs to know. if he turns his heart to god then he will know the truth and will not perish but have eternal life. this doesn't just happen all at once but part of eternal life is getting a new life right now while you live. it says in the bible that you will no longer be a creature of flesh but of spirit. it says it in the bible.

Takashi_0 #1318909 2 months ago

WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL HERE?

Bolan #1318920 2 months ago

Because pony jesus.

Anonymous #1318934 2 months ago

If one wants to use the bible to prove something, then you must first prove the bible is true. Otherwise I could just grab the koran, the baghidavida or the sutras and prove that those religions are true.

Anonymous #1318937 2 months ago

@ Takashi_o Because, there are so many people who are getting their logic-jimmies rustled, it's almost like a internet portrayal of a soap opera. It's shitty to all holy hell, but you just want to see it continue to unfold.

Anonymous #1318948 2 months ago

I prefer to believe that we were created by Celestia and Lauren Faust is her prophet sent to Earth to prepare us to afterlife in Equestria.

Anonymous #1318972 2 months ago

Though, religious shitstorm aside, I like that the Artist took care to give Pony Jesus the disk-like Halo like the old Renaissance-esque portrayals of Jesus had. TL;DR: I like his mane.

sigh #1318975 2 months ago

@Anon903 I don't know, the Bible is pretty spot on when it comes to the creation of the planet, so long as you don't believe that he actually created it in a week like an idiot. Step one: make the planet Step two: let there be light Step three: make the ocean Step four: make the land Step five: make the animals Step six: make the humans Obviously this is extremely dumbed down, but I think it gets the point accross nicely. Also I'm too lazy to check if I switched step three and four. whoops?

ARGH #1318976 2 months ago

We really don't need to bring this here. No one will want to believe you if you're just gonna judge and punish them using words you never came up with. Come back when people have their own convictions instead of shaming them for something not everyone believes. I know I believe in God the Trinity, but you're not gonna make people's opinions about him any better with this crap. Just go before you keep embarrassing yourself

Anonymous #1318978 2 months ago

934 the bible is true. look here: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Scientific-Proof-of-Bible.php if you read this you will have more understanding

Anonymous #1318981 2 months ago

CottonTales #1318987 2 months ago

I prefer to believe we were created by forces beyond our understanding who are neither good nor evil but that is just me

Arne #1318988 2 months ago

I can't believe I haven't mentioned this yet... Ever hear of the Epicurean paradox? It shows that if evil really does exist, then any belief in an all powerful benevolent deity is false. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Anonymous #1318989 2 months ago

I need to figure out how to work this code at some point.

sigh #1319046 2 months ago

@Arne He's perfectly able and willing to get rid of all the evil in the world, he's just waiting for the right time to step in and say, "Hold on y'all, I GOT THIS"

Anonymous #1319047 2 months ago

@sigh That's only proof of the earth centric view of those primitive people. This galaxy and light existed well before this planet coalesced and the universe has existed for an even longer time. The fact that it mixed up the order that the planet evolved (not just the flora and fauna) is another dead giveaway that these people didn't know what they were talking about. Only that they were smart enough to know that you need a place for things to live before they can live. The firmament, an actual barrier between space and the earth, doesn't exist. The same barrier that the people building the tower of babel where trying to reach and were punished for. If a real god was watching people do that, he'd let them build until they started dying of hypoxia, then let them dismantle the tower to nowhere. But the god of the bible didn't know that. Or anything else the people of the time didn't know. A real godlike entity would surely be more advanced than bronze age man.

Arne #1319069 2 months ago

@sigh So you say God is a fan of dramatic timing? I'll have to remember this.

Anonymous #1319070 2 months ago

@Arne There is no paradox. God can get rid of evil, but doesn't. Why? Because he respects his creation free will.

Anonymous #1319071 2 months ago

047 just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's wrong. he punished them for the evil and pride in there harts not because he thought they would get to heaven. he was mad because when all of man worked togeher for evil it would be too powerful to ever overcome. you need to have it expalined by schalers.

sigh #1319073 2 months ago

Oh come on, now you're just nitpicking. Do the people from >5000 years ago REALLY need to know the exact details of what happened before humanity was created? Also the Firmament isn't mentioned in the Bible either. Job 26:7 even says, and I quote: "He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing. "

sigh #1319085 2 months ago

@Arne Wouldn't you if you were that powerful? Remember, this is a guy that spent millions of years dicking around with the dinosaurs before moving on to us like some kid playing with Spore.

Takashi_0 #1319094 2 months ago

ECO! STOP BEING USELESS AND DELETE THIS PICTURE!

Flootershy #1319103 2 months ago

Faving this shitstorm!

sigh #1319114 2 months ago

But Takashiiiiiii, what if I need to refer back to this post in the futuuurrreeee?

Anonymous #1319119 2 months ago

@Sigh It says in genesis that god created a firmament from the hebrew word to create a bowl which was the vault of the heavens or ceiling ie, a solid structure. The people who wrote the bible knew nothing of our modern science. Which is why they got so many things wrong, and their god did also because he is a character they made up. He could only know what his authors knew, which wasn't much by today's standards.

Anonymous #1319139 2 months ago

you are wrong 119 and you know it. they used different words because they lived a different life. it still meant the same thin. you should know that what they talk about isn't the same as our science words because we changed them a long time ago. it's not the same thing. you are just pulling strings.

CottonTales #1319142 2 months ago

God created evil why? for the lulz honestly if I was all powerful I would create evil because all good is boring as hell but 9070 getting rid of evil is not getting rid of free will that would imply good is the lack of free will come up with a different explanation

sigh #1319144 2 months ago

I'm pretty sure that's one of those, you know, examples of an analogy? So as not to break the poor minds of the people?

Anonymous #1319174 2 months ago

@CottonTales Free will is based upon making choices. If you cannot choose to be evil, then you aren't truly free.

sigh #1319178 2 months ago

@Cotton God didn't create evil, he created free will. It says in the bible that Satan was basically that one douchebag in the corner that sulked and brooded and thought that everyone should worship him even though he hadn't done squat with his life. He then saw the humans and thought, "You know, I bet I could get THEM to worship me! Then I'd finally be cool!" So he went down to Eve and lied to her, making her eat the fruit, making her and Adam lost perfection (which does NOT, by the way, that you're as innocent as a child and so adorable and crap, it just means that you have a firm knowledge in what is right and what is wrong, that's it).

Saint_Braeburn #1319179 2 months ago

@Takashi I BLAME THE MODS!

Anonymous #1319195 2 months ago

@Sigh I think I got you in a corner. There is nothing in the bible that we wouldn't expect from primitive man. If a god exists, it isn't the christian one.

Anonymous #1319199 2 months ago

sigh is right again. god can't tell me man what to do otherwise it would be like making a robot that just does what tell it to. man has to choose to love him but i disagree with sigh about hell.

sigh #1319204 2 months ago

Basically the point of being perfect is knowing right from wrong, and that evil is stupid and selfish. That is why when Eve ate that fruit, she made such a big mistake, because she knew EXACTLY what God had told her to do/not to do, and she went ahead and did it anyway.

sigh #1319218 2 months ago

@Anon195 I'm not sure I follow. @Anon199 Look it up dude, and this time, ONLY USE THE BIBLE, don't use any of whatever religions you are usings' books, and you'll see I'm right.

CottonTales #1319220 2 months ago

@Anonymous9174 what? that's stupid there are more than just a good and evil choice there are several good choices and several evil choices and several neutral choices, choice is more than just black and white if you choose to hug your child or kiss them on the forehead you have made a choice @sigh so he created the guy who created evil and didn't stop him before he got to man same thing

Anonymous #1319227 2 months ago

@Sigh The Epicurian quote about god holds true. Because a perfect being that creates imperfect beings then punishes them for their imperfection, is by definition imperfect. “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -Epicurus

Anonymous #1319233 2 months ago

it says hell in the bible but you are rite i will have to look up it sigh. but i know that jesus "saves" and what he saves from is hell. so obviously hell is real. i had a dream once and i saw it too.

sigh #1319241 2 months ago

There's a big difference, Cotton! Tell me, would you rather be pre-programmed with a set of instructions like a robot, or would you rather be allowed to make your own choices?

sigh #1319256 2 months ago

@Anon227 But he didn't create them imperfect, he created them with free will, and the Veil of Perfection, which gives a +10 to your morality boost. He also gave them a very simple test with the fruit, and its their own fault for failing it.

Anonymous #1319270 2 months ago

@sigh So god, who is perfect and knows everything, didn't know that they would fail before he created them? Or he created them to fail because he is evil?

Anonymous #1319273 2 months ago

@227 No it's not. Because he gave them several tools and chances to be saved. They aren't punished for being imperfect, they are punished for accepting imperfection.

sigh #1319301 2 months ago

@Anon270 That's the whole point of Free Will. Peeking into the future is cheating, and kind of defeats the purpose.

Anonymous #1319303 2 months ago

@270 God knows everything. He knew they would fail. Why did he do it, then? Because he wanted them to have the same chances that he have. Would it be a failed chance then? Of course. But better having the chance than don't having it at all.

EricNeoMatrix #1319307 2 months ago

I love the smell of shitstorms in the morning...

CottonTales #1319315 2 months ago

@sigh wait which response are we talking about the first one I guess If I didn't ever have an evil choice to make I really don't think I would care and would still have free will I mean Adam and Eve had choice before sin...which reminds me while I'm in a religious thread what did the fruit of knowledge do exactly and why was man punished for eating it (I don't like what I'm thinking it is even though I'm almost sure I'm correct)

Anonymous #1319334 2 months ago

@Sigh I'm also in the not porn thread asking for proof the bible/god is real, BTW. No, an all powerful being can create a world without evil that does not deny freewill that is the by definition omnipotent.

CottonTales #1319345 2 months ago

yep anon1319334 is right being omnipotent should allow you to do anything

javierig #1319347 2 months ago

i am anon that was op. i made an account so ppl can msg me for the truth. that way if you are scared in the comments you can pm me if you are going to be nice and really are interested.

sigh #1319353 2 months ago

@Anon303 That's a bunch of BS and you know it. He has the OPPORTUNITY to know everything, that doesn't mean he always does it. @Cotton The fruit didn't really do much, except be the aforementioned test of loyalty/faith. They literally had hundreds of similar trees to eat from, and all God told them was that if they ate from that one particular tree, they would die. If they had listened and never eaten it from off of it then I assume if probably would have just died off or something.

Anonymous #1319365 2 months ago

@javierig Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

sigh #1319368 2 months ago

Also I think we're getting caught up too much into the concepts of Good and Evil, I think it's much mre correct to say Right and Wrong.

Anonymous #1319382 2 months ago

@sigh No really, an omnipotent being could create a kind of heaven, then make creatures to populate this heaven so that they could enjoy eternal bliss... with him... Which is what I'd expect from an omnipotent god instead of a bronze age euphemism for mother nature.

sigh #1319392 2 months ago

But eternal bliss is boring! There would be no choices to make, no decisions on what to do, it would just be... existence! If it were a thing, that would sound more like Purgatory to me!

javierig #1319400 2 months ago

sigh is right again. he's smart. you should listen to him.

Anonymous #1319411 2 months ago

@sigh So god created misery and death and decay so that he could be entertained. The Epicurus was right and god is malevolent.

Anonymous #1319412 2 months ago

@334 He could, yes. But the main point is that God wanted humans to be in his image. God wanted humans to have the same possibilities that he did. @Sigh God is omnicient. He know everything that happened, happens and will happen. It's silly to believe otherwise.

CottonTales #1319415 2 months ago

@sigh agreed I hate the concepts of good and evil they always make things complicated

TheShrubberyDemander #1319445 2 months ago

>discussing religion on a pony website

sigh #1319448 2 months ago

@Anon411 No, he created everything with the intent of creating life that could interact with the Earth. Only after that life proved that it would not hold itself to his oh so small standards did all of those things follow suit. @Anon412 But the very concept of omniscience goes against Free Will, which I believe was more important to God than knowing everything that would happen ever.

sigh #1319456 2 months ago

@Cotton I know right? It's far too easy to create circular logic when discussing things like Good and Evil, because those mean different things to everyone, much less so the concepts of Right and Wrong, which only become different from the norm when the psyche is warped.

Anonymous #1319463 2 months ago

@Sigh I am almost convinced that you don't believe what you are saying. Because you stopped making sense.

Anonymous #1319471 2 months ago

@Cotton The fruit of enligment had the knowledge of all that evil is. So did the humans didn't have free will before eating? Of course they did, otherwise they couldn't have disobeyed God. They didn't, however, know what evil really is. Like a baby who never took a civility class, they contacted all the knowledge upon eating. Before eating, there was only one sin possible: eating from the tree, because God would never punish someone without understanding of what they done. Upon eating, however, all other sins became 'valid', if you will. Because humanity knew they were wrong. @411 He didn't create misery and decay. He give people a choice, just like his angels. @Sigh Why does it? Free will is the capacity of making choices. God knows which choices we will make, however he doesn't do anything to differ from it. Would free will be destiny then? Who knows? Imagine this: God doesn't care what will happen, so humans can choose what they want. God knows what will happen, and lets humans choose what they want. God isn't binded by our human notions, as such, he knowing everything doesn't interfere with our own choices.

sigh #1319485 2 months ago

Anon471 does a better job explaining things than I do concerning that.

Anonymous #1319496 2 months ago

@471 Either god created everything to include all that is "evil" like cancer and viruses and children born without skin, etc. or he didn't. Now if he did, then he is malevolent. If he didn't create it but allowed it to happen when he could have stopped it, he is still malevolent. If he didn't create it and can't stop it then he isn't all powerful.

javierig #1319506 2 months ago

496 is just wrong.

sigh #1319523 2 months ago

@Anon496 Those things are what happens when you take humans and remove perfection from them, which is what happened when they CHOSE to disobey him. Free will is paramount here, and him intervening while either Satan was doing his thing or Adam and Eve were doing theirs would render the choices they were making moot. If he was going to stop them when they had made up their minds then why give them a test at all? Why give them free will?

Anonymous #1319534 2 months ago

@javierig I understand that you lack the capacity to point out the flaws in my logic. But for the sake of argument, let us assume that your god with his qualities of omnipotents and omnipresence existed. He created everything and everything is within his power. Then why did he kill those people in Haiti during the hurricane? Or those people in Indonesia during the tsunami? Or all those people in Japan? He is all powerful, he created the world in such a way that these things would happen at their appointed times, he is directly responsible for all of the people who were trapped underground for days while they slowly died of thirst. Your god must be, by definition, the epitome of evil.

CottonTales #1319536 2 months ago

@9471 everything you said really paints god as either a malevolent deity or an uncaring deity

Anonymous #1319539 2 months ago

@496 Stop repeating. He didn't create evil, but allows it to happen, not because he is malevolent, but because he is benevolent: because, like I said, he wanted his creation to be just like himself.

javierig #1319542 2 months ago

no; GOD is only good. i can't explain everything and i don't have to. it's not for man to know. you have to have faith. bad things happen for reasons and like sigh said it's because the devil rules everything. that is why u can't trust world.

Anonymous #1319566 2 months ago

@534 That is a bad argument. Why? I will explain to you. God knows everything and can do anything, correct? So he knows everyone who will die. And he could revive anyone who he wanted to. For us, death is a horrible thought. For him it's nothing. He is greater than death. See why blaming him for deaths is just wrong? Because no one dies without his consent. Tell me then, if those people didn't die at those times, when should they die?

Anonymous #1319568 2 months ago

@javierig In the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth. And created the earth in such a way that millions will die of floods, and earthquakes, and firestorms, and volcanoes, and tornadoes, and drought, and famine, and everything else that god made that day so that he his creations could suffer and die slow and horrible deaths. And he looked upon his creation and said it was good.

CottonTales #1319571 2 months ago

@javierig faith is not my thing, I don't believe in things without proof that is ignorance and trust me ignorance causes more evil than anything else even by your own definition of the world And no dice I can believe god is fair but he is jealous and allows evil to prosper he can not be only good

javierig #1319579 2 months ago

no 568, read ur bible. it's because they ate the fruit of knowlege because of the devil. it's his fault not GODS. you are not even trying now.

sigh #1319593 2 months ago

Javi brings up another point that I had almost forgotten: Satan currently rules the world, not God. When Satan made Adam and Eve disobey God, he was basically making a challenge to him, saying, "Hey, you! I can be a better ruler than you!" God said, "Prove it" And here we are.

Anonymous #1319603 2 months ago

@568 Now, for the sake of argument, let me ask you something: how do you know that dieing is that bad? @Cotton Then you will never believe in God, because God cannot and will never be put into humans rules and logic.

sigh #1319605 2 months ago

Also Anon568, I'm pretty sure that those disasters wouldn't have happened if Adam and Eve had stayed perfect. It's BECAUSE we're living in an imperfect system of things that those things are happening, not because God made them so.

sigh #1319616 2 months ago

Also Anon566 has a point: He is greater than death. He can undo all the terrible things that have happened ever, but like I said in the last thread (or maybe it was this one?) he's waiting for the right time to do so.

Anonymous #1319639 2 months ago

@javierig So man causes earthquakes? We also cause tsunamis? Is it man or god that has the power to cause drought or volcanoes? How many volcanoes has man caused, I'm estimating none. How many has god caused, I'll estimate all of them. When god wiped Pompei from the earth by EXPLODING a volcano, was that man's fault? Did man use his awesome power to cause the volcano to awaken and EXPLODE THE ISLAND? Man must be very powerful if he can do that. Then why didn't man just choose not to die in horrible burning rock and suffocating ash? Because god decided that at its appointed time that Pompei was going to stop existing in a column of fire and death. God chose some lucky ones who died instantly and he chose for the rest to slowly suffocate under blinding ash and poisonous fog. Holding their children tight as their lungs burned and their eyes bled. Or was it man who chose to suffer such a terrible fate because they should have known better than to live there? God created that suffering because he is the cause of all evil in the world.

javierig #1319653 2 months ago

u are confusing men doing stuff to actively make these things happen and the actually fall of man that causes this things to be possible. u need to quit trying to sound smart and find TRUTH.

Anonymous #1319664 2 months ago

@javierig I'm actually curious as to how you figured volcanoes are in any way, shape, or form, man's fault.

CottonTales #1319666 2 months ago

@1319603 take out cannot and your sentence makes sense because god can do whatever he pleases even if it creates a paradox if you read I just ask for proof he doesn't need to be put into our rules or logic to supply proof

sigh #1319673 2 months ago

See, this is why my username is Sigh. YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. When mankind turned their collective backs of God, we became imperfect and he took away his protection from us, ALLOWING the earth to become just as imperfect as we are. God does not CAUSE these things to happen, he's allowing them to happen until an appointed time to show just how bad of a ruler Satan is.

Anonymous #1319686 2 months ago

@sigh Let me get this straight, god didn't create decay but decay exists because he let's it happen to show how bad satan is at "running the world." I must have missed something, explain to me the same as javierig how in tarnation volcanoes, big columns of liquid fire rock are man's doing?

javierig #1319693 2 months ago

sigh can explain things better than me but waht he says is that GOD lets things happen because man made a choice to be free and if he were to control everything he would not give us freedom. so everyone chooses what to do and should see the world is not right and is unstable so turn away from worldly ways and towards TRUTH

Anonymous #1319713 2 months ago

@javierig That doesn't explain volcanoes. Did god create the earth? Did god invent volcanoes? How is this man's doing?

Anonymous #1319717 2 months ago

the problem with saying that logic doesn't apply to god is that it makes it pointless to talk about god. like, if logic doesn't apply to god, then it means nothing to say that he loves us, because him loving us doesn't mean that he won't purposefully do bad things to us too. if logic doesn't apply to god, you can say he's totally good and it can be true even if he's also doing things that, were a human to do them, would be evil. saying that logic doesn't apply to god is a cop-out and makes any feelings we might have towards god totally pointless. as a religious person, it makes my faith pointless. it makes my attempts to do good pointless. it makes every fucking thing about god pointless because when we get to the end he can just say "logic doesn't apply to me" and go back on everything he's promised us and invalidate everything that made us love him to begin with. it's a shitty cop-out and if it's true it's the best reason I ever heard to be an atheist.

sigh #1319722 2 months ago

Not just Satan, but Man too, since Man also wanted to be able to do their own thing. All those things you pointed out earlier are proof that not only does Satan royally suck as a ruler, but we're not much better in comparison to God. When we disobeyed him we were basically giving him the middle finger and saying, "screw you, we can do what we want." God was just like, "fine, whatever, but if you want to do this all on your own then I'm going to take away everything that I was using to help you." This includes protection from natural disasters, sickness, and death.

javierig #1319723 2 months ago

i have already explained myself and now u are just trolling. you are confusing the world you live in now for the paradise man threw away.

Anonymous #1319741 2 months ago

here's the part that bugs me why would we be created with desires that are incorrect to act upon? why would adam and eve ever have wanted to rebel? why would satan have ever wanted to rebel?

javierig #1319751 2 months ago

if man didn't have a choice then he would just be like a robot. those desires were simply teh ability to make the wrong choices. it would be like a good parent that just keeps their kids imprisoned in the room all day and not let them try anything. you have to give people choices to have rela love.

sigh #1319755 2 months ago

Because Satan was an egotistical prick and wanted to be worshiped. The fact that Satan even tried to tempt Jesus those three times shows that just because you're perfect, doesn't mean you're morally invincible. Wrong thoughts can still be made, because that's the entire point of free will: you make your own decisions. Whether or not you decide to use that free will to follow God is on you, not him.

Anonymous #1319756 2 months ago

@sigh/javierig God gave us protection from really nasty stuff? Where did those nasty things come from? Who created them? God did. God created everything. God isn't loving, he's a mob boss. He's making us an offer we can't refuse. Either do what he says or Polio virus! Pay him his respect or he'll break our kneecaps. God is an evil mob boss.

Anonymous #1319762 2 months ago

yeah okay we have to have choices but we choose things according to what we want. why did adam and eve choose to rebel? they had free will, to rebel was allowed; okay, I get that. but they must have had a reason. why did satan choose to rebel? clearly even the angels have free will, or it wouldn't have happened. but what was his reason?

javierig #1319771 2 months ago

i cant read there minds.

Anonymous #1319772 2 months ago

sigh: why did satan want to be worshipped? where would that idea, that desire, have even come from, when all you have at that point is the angels and the glory of god?

Anonymous #1319778 2 months ago

like, I'm trying to root cause hubris here. I'm trying to figure out how people (humans, angels, whatever) could ever have gotten to the point where they thought it was a good idea.

sigh #1319784 2 months ago

We don't know EXACTLY what was going through Satan's head when he decided to rebel, all we know is that he wanted to be worshiped and decided that humans were a good starting point for that. As for Adam and Eve, that's easy: Satan lied and said that if they ate the fruit then not only would they not die (like God said they would), but they would be like God. Only after then did Eve "See that the tree was good for food" and broke THE ONLY RULE THEY HAD TO BREAK. Keep in mind that all this information was coming from a talking snake, so the information presented should have been at least a little bit suspect. But hey, what can I say? Eve was an idiot. Presumably if Satan hadn't interfered we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Anonymous #1319790 2 months ago

@778 My point is much simpler, either god is the author of all that is bad and evil and has the power to end it at a whim and chooses not to or he doesn't. And if he did, does and can then he is an evil monster.

sigh #1319794 2 months ago

As for what was going through Satan's mind: Have you ever seen someone else gain some sort of prize, and felt envious of that person, wanting to have what they have even if you don't deserve it? I imagine that's the kind of feeling we're looking for here.

CottonTales #1319805 2 months ago

@sigh didn't Satan start with angels though I mean he and his angels were sent to hell so he had to start there right also who says Eve was an idiot for believing a talking snake chances are all animals spoke the same tongue back then, no need to not understand the creatures you name right Plus you must take into account she didn't know about evil before why wouldn't she believe the snake

javierig #1319808 2 months ago

u just don't understand at all. sigh has been patient and i treid but it's not possible i guess. i wish i had better answers but u r asking things you know nobody can know. that's for faith and only ur heart can kno.

sigh #1319813 2 months ago

Anyway Anon790 you assume that God is just going to let the Earth be messed up like it is forever. He still wants us humans to be perfect and living on a Paradisical Earth, he just had to adjust to the whole "rebellion" thing going on.

Anonymous #1319817 2 months ago

@sigh How are volcanoes, earthquakes, everything I said earlier, not god's fault?

sigh #1319823 2 months ago

@Cotton Doesn't matter whether or not she knew about Evil or not, she knew what the right thing to do was: Not eat the fruit. The fact that she did so anyway despite being told why that was a bad idea by the guy that made her is akin to a parent telling a child not to do something and then having that child do it right in front of you, while staring you in the face. Also no, he didn't get other angels until after the whole "Adam and Eve" debacle.

sigh #1319840 2 months ago

@Anon817 Because they are natural functions of the planet. I assume that when the humans were perfect he used his powers to quell those forces, but when they rebelled, he lifted his protection from them.

Anonymous #1319853 2 months ago

@sigh So god created every natural disaster known and unknown to man. Right?

Anonymous #1319854 2 months ago

sigh#1319794: if you're standing in front of god, shouldn't the rightness of worshipping him be fucking obvious? and more to the point, isn't our tendency towards envy (the feeling you theorize led to satan's rebellion) a symptom of our fallen state? or do you think even adam and eve would have experienced it? if it's a symptom of our fallen state, why would lucifer have had that impulse? I'm harping on this because your worldview traces back every flaw to one stupid fucking decision on the part of this one angel, and in the context of a pre-fall world, I can't fathom why he'd have done it. it makes the whole construction seem hollow and unsound.

ZORDON #1319865 2 months ago

Seriously? No one thought about poor old Gandalf?

Anonymous #1319876 2 months ago

sigh#1319840: why build a world which has those natural functions? if you're wielding infinite power, it seems like a somewhat bizarre design decision, unless you assert that every other possible design would have been worse. also just to be clear I'm using the [sage] tag because there's no particular reason to keep bumping this malarky to the top of the comments list, and I'm hoping y'all do the same.

sigh #1319880 2 months ago

@Anon853 Kind of. He created the universe that, in turn, created those forces. But a lot of those forces also have another aspect to them that in some ways are helpful, like that volcano eruption creating nutrient rich magma that makes some of the best plants ever. @Anon854 You'd really think so, wouldn't you? I don't claim to know everything on the subject, but I do what I can with what I've got.

sigh #1319885 2 months ago

Also holy crap this page alone takes up over 7 MB of RAM.

Anonymous #1319903 2 months ago

Nope. Evil isn't even a thing. It's just the absense of God.

Anonymous #1319912 2 months ago

@sigh And god let's these bad things happen to good people, right?

sigh #1319926 2 months ago

He's not ruling the world right now, until he takes it back it's not his problem.

CottonTales #1319955 2 months ago

@sigh "Those who allow evil to continue and do nothing are just as guilty of those who do it themselves" God is morally ambiguous, I knew it

Anonymous #1319956 2 months ago

what is gained by not taking back the throne right now? (I have an answer to this - even a christianity-compatible answer - but it's doesn't work with your theodicy.)

CottonTales #1319957 2 months ago

*as guilty as those stupid typos

Anonymous #1319967 2 months ago

@sigh I will take that as a yes, god let's bad things happen to good people. Does god have the power to stop these bad things from happening?

Anonymous #1320033 2 months ago

Uhh, I guess I'll take that as a yes also. So god created all the evil in the world, god let's it happen to good people and god can stop it at anytime QED god is evil.

sigh #1320045 2 months ago

Of course he has the power to stop this all from happening, like I said, he's just waiting for the right time to do so. This whole thing is just one big proof that without him and his blessings we're lost little sheep, running around like a bunch of idiots, not even realizing that its raining and that we'll drown if we don't go uphill. ... Wow, that metaphor really got away from me. ANYWAY, yeah. After it's been definitively proven that we suck at ruling ourselves, he's gonna bring Armageddon (which is not the end of the world, BTW. It's instead described basically as the event where Satan and his angels fight Jesus and his angels) and this 1,000 year period where everyone (save for a few) will be resurrected to be taught the truth about who he is and all that jazz (also for the majority of it Satan is locked away so he doesn't keep misleading peeps). This, not some apocalyptic scenario, is Judgement Day, and at the end of said 1,000 years Satan is let loose once more to try and mislead us again, as a sort of "taking as many of you bastards down with me" sort of strategy. Those who remain faithful get to go to Paradise, those who don't get destroyed with Satan (remember kids, Hell doesn't exist!).

sigh #1320050 2 months ago

Ugh, sorry for the wait between replies, my laundry keeps being a retard.

Anonymous #1320062 2 months ago

I stand by my proof, god created all evil, god allows it to happen to good people, and god can stop it at anytime QED god be evil, yo.

Anonymous #1320065 2 months ago

that seems like an awful lot of suffering to inflict on the people who don't deserve it, just to prove a point. especially if armageddon is followed by a thousand year tutelary period where all the knots get worked out and holes filled in in a satisfactory way.

Anonymous #1320076 2 months ago

@1320062: "suffering" and "evil" aren't exactly the same issue. granted I think there's still a wogly in there on the suffering end of things, but conflating them is a bad idea.

Anonymous #1320083 2 months ago

also gonna say it again, put a sage tag in your posts so the rest of the site doesn't have to listen to our jibber jabber

sigh #1320089 2 months ago

Well hey, if you're talking about whether or not the guy that created everything has the right to rule over it all, there would probably need to be some pretty big evidence for his case.

sigh #1320091 2 months ago

Also I don't know how to sage my posts, sorry.

Anonymous #1320108 2 months ago

just put [sage] somewhere in them. the tag won't be visible in the posted comment but it'll keep the comment from bumping the thread

sigh #1320122 2 months ago

Well thank you for that then, I have learned something today.

sigh #1320137 2 months ago

Also you two should make accounts, I've enjoyed this thread thoroughly!

Anonymous #1320164 2 months ago

part of the problem is also that, under your explanation, most people aren't even aware of the original issue anymore. like, okay, let's say god's existence was common knowledge, and it was a known thing that humanity decided that he was being a drag. in that case this kind of an approach would sorta make sense, because it'd be about an informed decision. but most people who aren't christian think the idea of the christian god is freaking bonkers. I mean, if I started yapping at you about how man has forsaken the nature spirits and ruined the natural world and so they're defending themselves with earthquakes and floods, that'd be crazy, right? it's obviously a good argument if there's such a thing as nature spirits that might have been run over and harmed by the industrial revolution, but there aren't any, right? I think it's the same thing with god today. most people aren't making the choice to rebel against god; they just don't think there's anyone to rebel against, or at least haven't been convinced of that. and in that light, the point of "rebelling leads you to sorrow" seems like the wrong one to be making, compared to "I actually exist".

Anonymous #1320171 2 months ago

(I have an account, but prefer to post anon so that my opinions can stand on their own merits instead of being influenced by reputation.)

sigh #1320207 2 months ago

Man screw reputation, I just like to know that other people know who I am. Ah, but Anon164, you say that as if we're the only piece of the puzzle. Satan is still the ruler of this world, remember? One of the major debate topics between him and God is that, if given the chance, most of humanity would rather do their own thing than serve Him. If I made a bet like that (and risked my life on it, no less!), then I'd do whatever I could to not even give people that chance! Even if they make it to the massive teaching seminar that is Judgement Day, I'd be making it that much harder for the people who do know to teach everyone else to make that informed decision.

Anonymous #1320302 2 months ago

I'm trying to piece this together. so let me see if I can get the order of operations right here. 1) satan disagrees with god's position on the throne of the world, presumably for selfish reasons. 2) satan gets mankind to turn away from god. 3) god decides to let satan and mankind have a go at running the world, knowing that it'll be to their sorrow but also knowing that it's the only way to make mankind see how important it is to have him at the reins. 4) meanwhile, satan conducts a campaign of misinformation, muddling the fact that god exists at all - a campaign which god would have to return to the throne of the world in order to counter with any lasting effectiveness. 5) somewhere in here god pulls the trick of becoming human and dying on the cross and so forth, so that even if humans deserve punishment for their mismanagement, they don't have to be punished (and also doing an end-run around not spreading the correct teaching while satan is on the throne of the world). 6) "when the time is right" (i.e. whenever his perfect perspective and understanding says has the best chance of working well), god kicks satan out and explains all this stuff. 7) once it's all explained, satan gets one last chance to get people to rebel anyway, and the ones who stay faithful get the perfect world, and the ones who don't end up in the outer darkness, severed from the world lest they screw everything up again. 8) happy end. is this basically how you see things going down?

sigh #1320315 2 months ago

Pretty much, except for the God=Jesus part. The Trinity be wack yo.

Anonymous #1320380 2 months ago

there's still a couple things bothering me, then. first off, it's still sort of worrying to me that we haven't established why satan decided to rebel to begin with. like, what's stopping some other person from getting the same idea during step 8 and starting this whole mess over (aside from the fact that it didn't work for the last guy)? and second... well, this is probably just me talking. but I'm a computer engineer, and well acquainted with the idea of code maintenance. and it seems... troublesome, to say the least, that the world is such that it will give rise to suffering without someone of god's caliber at the reins. that the world's design would be such that it is harmful when left to its own devices. I feel like, okay, god's got perfect perspective and understanding, and absolute power when not checking himself for the sake of his love and ideals. couldn't he have come up with something less intrinsically unpleasant?

Takino #1320419 2 months ago

This has all been quite entertaining. To be honest, I didn't read all of it, after about two thirds of the way down it just started to get to be too much to sit through, but I do have something I wanted to post, particularly to the OP, but to others here as well. Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

sigh #1320473 2 months ago

Actually, I've thought about that before, and I figured that if showing humanity collectively screwing itself with a knife for >7,000 years (don't know exact total so let's just go with that) won't show people that they suck without a guiding hand, then they're probably not going to make it through Judgement Day anyway. PLUS, one thing I forgot to mention was that certain humans, 144,000 to be exact, are chosen by Godto come serve as kings up in heaven along with Jesus, essentially serving as watchmen I suppose. The fact that they all used to be human will no doubt prove to be a good reference point for why we do things while they're looking after us. Also, who said it becomes harmful when left to its own devices? Sure, there's the fact that hurricanes and volcanoes and stuff like that exist, but they serve a greater function than just the wanton destruction that humans lament. I know this may be going against what I said earlier, but these things probably still existed back in the days of Adam and Eve, just... lessened or something. They probably didn't seem as destructive back then as they do now. Plus the fact that despite the fact of whether or not you believe in global warming or whatever, it's plain to see that in recent years humanity and their stupidity has been wreaking havoc on the Earth's atmosphere, biosphere, etc. (heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we're also somehow responsible for the increased number of bad earthquakes too. Maybe all the explosions?).

sigh #1320491 2 months ago

Oh hey Takino. That's actually one of my favorite quotes, the other one is this (sorry, it's kind of long and I didn't know what to add and what to leave off, also I wish I remembered how to do bold text): Matthew chapter 24- 3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” 4 And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads YOU; 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Anonymous #1320494 2 months ago

you could make an argument about shale oil phracking, although that's really really recent. but a big part of the argument was that the world doesn't have to have suffering, and that it is the absence of god which allows it to happen. like, okay, with someone calling the shots it's easy to make sure that nobody is in the path of the tsunami when it hits. but it seems crazy to me that you need malicious "miracles" to make lava into something people will get hurt on, when we've already talked about how these are just natural consequences of the way the world was constructed.

sigh #1320515 2 months ago

Who said we couldn't have gotten hurt from them beforehand? Jesus was perfect, he still died from getting repeatedly stabbed in several areas. (Fun fact! Jesus didn't ACTUALLY die on a cross, he died on a stake, with his arms above his head)

Anonymous #1320542 2 months ago

yeah, but I wouldn't claim that being perfect shields you from imperfect shit that exists externally to you. like, I get that the whole world needs to be perfected for stuff to actually work, otherwise cutting off satan and willful rebels wouldn't really make sense. I guess I'm just fixated on the descriptions we've been given of the world to come as being a place with no pain or sadness, and wondering why this world doesn't fit that standard in the areas that are basically only controllable by the management.

sigh #1320576 2 months ago

Well don't forget, a major factor for why these occurrences cost so many lives is because of clustering! Pompei was, frankly, unlucky that the volcano burst on their side, San Fransisco would fall into the drink from all the earthquakes they sit right on top of if they didn't keep maintenance, and you can easily survive MOST floods by not running towards the free fish as the tide leaves.

GreyAcumane #1320614 2 months ago

I am Christian and wtf is this shit?

sigh #1320650 2 months ago

It's amazing, really, how tolerant this community is. This is maybe the third or fourth (depends if you count the other one that was made today) religion thread made on this Booru where I've been able to talk religion relatively peacefully.

ChickNeighney #1320703 2 months ago

I'd like to ask something relatively minor. Someone said that it wasn't the Christians that killed Jesus, but the Jewish. Wouldn't they be the same thing, at that point? From what I remember, the only difference between the two is Christians believe Christ was God's son or whatever and the Jewish think he's just a prophet.

sigh #1320725 2 months ago

Well, the Jewish were kind of precursors to the Christians, in the fact that there were a lot of prophecies dealing with who the Messiah (translated: Savior, or something like that) would be, and Jesus fit pretty much all of those bills, and many of them weren't under his control to fulfill. The Jews at the time were under the oppression of the Romans, because lets face it, the Jews really sucked at NOT being oppressed by SOMEONE back in the day, and they were kind of hoping that the Messiah would bring about salvation in a kind of kick-butt, become king of everything kind of way. That combined with the fact that the head Jews themselves weren't doing too hot in the "not being corrupt" department, they got pissed when Jesus called them out on it. One of the funniest things, though, is that for most of the people back then nobody really denied the fact that he was doing miracles/was God's son, but they wanted him gone anyway because he was not the savior they were looking for.

sigh #1320765 2 months ago

Also, as a final good night, congratulations are in order, you all had a nice conversation with a Jehovah's Witness.

ChickNeighney #1320775 2 months ago

Alright, now that that's cleared up for me, if I may ask a more serious question? What makes any one religion better than another? Since there are so many more, and older, religions out there, what makes this one the right one?

ChickNeighney #1320827 2 months ago

Aw, darn, I guess I missed you? But anyway, you're pretty cool. For one of those people. *shifty eyes*

sigh #1320854 2 months ago

Honestly? I may sound a little dickish when I say this but (at least the version I have) it's just a teensy bit more... grounded in reality, I suppose? The Bible has many historical accounts in it, many of which have been backed up by archeological findings. It tells stories, not to make the people/nations in it look great like so many other accounts, but to teach lessons for those that read them. Seriously, in the older books, it tells of the defeats of the Jews almost as much as it tells of the victories. There are many prophecies in the Bible that have come true, not the least of which that 1914 would signal the beginnings of dark times (keep in mind that I'm going completely off of JW stuff here, we're known for being a little more... in depth in our research of the Bible before publishing anything), and for me personally? It's probably saved at least 2-3 of my family members from bad things, like addictions, a nasty temper, and living in the bad side of town.

ChickNeighney #1321281 2 months ago

Fair enough. You're the first person that's ever given me an answer that made sense. Most other people I asked say either faith or, "if it's not true, then why do we follow BC and AD years?" Personally, I've never been too big on religion. I believe that it had a purpose when it was made, but it's not really needed anymore. But I also believe that there is at least one Deity, we just haven't found the right one(s), yet. But you're free to believe what you want to believe. I'm not gonna stop you. More power to you, and all that.

Anonymous #1321844 2 months ago

I know this discussion seems to have died, but there are some issues that need to be explainned. @717 Logic really doesn't apply to God. But it's doesn't make him pointless, in fact he wouldn't be God if it did. Why? Define someone perfect. Now try to find someone who agree with you. God is perfect, but perfection is a concept too alien to human logic. Why did Satan rebel? Simply put, pride. Cutting a long story short Satan thought his judgement was better than God. Why did man rebel? Satan tempted them. But there were other factors: like curiosity and ambition. If someone offered you a fruit (or any item) and claimed that if you used it, you would be like God, would you do it? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. We already know how that story did end.

PPPP #1322166 2 months ago

What's an p animal?

Anonymous #1361394 2 months ago

@1322166 A p-ony, for instance.