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| Anonymous #1304133 2 months ago |
Celestia wasn't of any use either. No wonder the ponies cheered so much for their new rulers. |
| Anonymous #1304137 2 months ago |
Luna: Bitchwhogothershitslapped says what? |
| Anonymous #1304140 2 months ago |
"Who else but Luna?!"
It's Luna! Luna! You never know if she'll do anything! It's Luna! Luna! "Huzzah! The laziness has doubled!" |
| Anonymous #1304143 2 months ago |
Celestia did not perform much better herself. |
| Trombe #1304155 2 months ago |
Celestia tried but failed.
Luna slept through the whole ordeal. Ergo, Luna is a cat. |
| Anonymous #1304161 2 months ago |
^ |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304168 2 months ago |
@Trombe
I like cats.  |
| liquidXTC #1304176 2 months ago |
I'm somehow under the impression that Luna only has her power at night. Maybe she has to sleep during the day. |
| Anonymous #1304198 2 months ago |
We didn't see any of the batwing guard ponies either. |
| Anonymous #1304199 2 months ago |
If Celestia did go all out, the gathered crowd would've been toast. |
| Anonymous #1304217 2 months ago |
She's nocturnal. Duh. |
| Anonymous #1304223 2 months ago |
@Anon198 The batponies are still on the moon to help woona. |
| Anonymous #1304225 2 months ago |
Here's a thought: instead of taking on an invading army by herself, Celestia could have asked for help and planned ahead. And arranged for the Elements of Harmony to be more easily reached by the Mane 6 (she didn't learn from the first time?). |
| Impious #1304233 2 months ago |
Guys, guys, I still think, deep down, the reason she was so easily defeated was because she doesn't possess the power of love herself, in any amount. You can move the damn sun, sure, but if the basis of magic is friendship, and you don't actually have any real friends, yeah, you're going to lose that magical duel with the succubus hopped up on the power of love, which is the extreme form of friendship and therefore superior magic. She never had a chance.
Luna has no excuse, she's just fucking lazy. She sleeps all fucking day and parties all night. Like a certain roommate. |
| Anonymous #1304252 2 months ago |
Anonymous
#1304225 Oh yeah, she should just have the mane 6 just live in the palace and fire the guards. What are you, Mykan? |
| CottonTales #1304258 2 months ago |
@Impious
lets say okay to that still doesn't account for the fact that Celestia is powerful enough to move both the sun and moon for one thousand years |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304267 2 months ago |
@Impious
A lot of people have actually been putting that point forward, especially on TV Tropes. No I'm not gonna link, too lazy. As for Luna, she WAS on guard duty during the night, as showed in the first half on the first of the two episodes. Also, Twilight is totally going to replace Celestia in the last episode of the show, 'cuz friendship. I'm calling it. |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304274 2 months ago |
@Cottton
Someone else mentioned that if she really used all her power, everyone in the room would've been toast. Seems plausible to me. |
| Anonymous #1304279 2 months ago |
Impious
#1304233 And the power of the sun can't match the power of love, especially since it was used to power up an already powerful queen. And Luna sleeps during the day. She's *never* seen in the day. And what would she do? Celestia is more powerful than Luna. She would of done nothing as well. |
| CottonTales #1304301 2 months ago |
@FuzzyFenrir
she didn't have to use it all just enough to win better than just going 'hey she's starting to win better use the exact same amount of power I've been using and not at least try to get out of the way' If Chrysalis had time to notice the change Celestia should of as well |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304315 2 months ago |
@Cotton
She did notice the change. Something that's quite obvious if you look at her face during that scene. She could have also just frozen in panic, or something something arguments Celestia is best pony. Anyway, err, yeah. Hoarse. |
| Impious #1304334 2 months ago |
No guys, the power of the sun CAN'T. Friendship is the very basis of Equestrian Magic, and Love is the extreme form of Friendship. Chrysalis was hopped way the fuck up on Shining Armor's love, and having had everyone call her "Cadence, my love" she cut some more off the corners. She basically slapped Celestia in the face with a nuke AND her own attack. Celestia has no friends and certainly isn't very close to Luna, so her magic was a firecracker in comparison.
Still painful to watch, though. I felt so bad for her, she was so gung-ho about protecting her ponies and BAM, slapped right out of the sky like a common pest. Come on DHX, throw the poor mare a bone. She tries so hard. |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304373 2 months ago |
Impious@1304334 said: Twilight. Also, I didn't think about the "Mi Amore Cadenza" thing being a plotpoint. Holymutherbeejungbajeebus that is genius. Mind if I steal it? Also, I cried when Cely got blasted. So sad ;-; |
| Anonymous #1304382 2 months ago |
All people in here assume that the real wedding took place on the same day as the invasion of the Changelings.
I doubt even Twilight could arrange a second wedding within just mere hours. Luna was arriving at the wedding late, because she had to attend her royal duties and couldn't make it sooner. This doesn't tell us anything about what she did during the Changeling attack, though the likeliest thought is, that she was seized right when the invasion started. It's unlikely the Changelings would let an Alicorn Princess just roam free. |
| Anonymous #1304396 2 months ago |
"Around the Godde there forms a Shelle of prayers and Ceremonies and Buildings and Priestes and Authority, until at Last the Godde Dies. Ande this maye notte be noticed."
Celestia has the obedience of everypony but because she has no true friends she is powerless in a world where friendship is magic. |
| Impious #1304482 2 months ago |
373
Yes, she's totally best friends with Twilight who is absolutely terrified of her and never refers to her by her name, rather than her title. It's nothing more than a pleasant relationship between student and teacher, although Celestia probably wishes it were otherwise. That could make a great episode, actually. |
| Impious #1304492 2 months ago |
And you know, if Celestia ever has a Nightmare Moon moment, now is the time. She was just shown to be utterly incapable of defending Canterlot and Equestria -and rather embarrassingly, at that- and has probably lost the trust of a lot of ponies. Sure, they'll never say it to her face, but what good is a ruler who can't protect her subjects? So she goes after more power, so that she can do her job properly. And power corrupts, no matter how pure the intentions are. It'd be interesting because she'd be completely justified, because goddamn that was kind of painful. |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304510 2 months ago |
@Imp
Imp. Twi LOVES Celestia. Maybe not as a friend, but she loves her. And as for terrified, remember that Twilight was also terrified of her friends in Boast Busters. Twilight is always afraid she'll disappoint someone. And if you don't believe me she loves her, remember how happy she was she'll be spending time with her at the Gala, or when she came to congratulate the group after defeating NMM, she bumrushed her to get a hug. Or how scared she was when Celestia got shot down by Chrysalis in the latest episode. |
| Operationgenesis #1304516 2 months ago |
If the Power of Friendship can beat Discord, the Power of Love shouldn't have too much trouble with Celestia. |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304524 2 months ago |
And as for your second argument, don't you think that's exactly the reason she sent Twi away to get friends? |
| Impious #1304528 2 months ago |
There's still a lot between them preventing them from being real friends, though. Twilight loves Celestia as her ruler and mentor, but not really as an actual friend. Even so, that's ONE friend. Celestia still doesn't really have friends, and she's certainly not in love. So the succubus curbstomped her, because you know, friendship is magic. |
| FuzzyFenrir #1304540 2 months ago |
I'm not arguing the whole PO.... LOVE OVERWHELMING thing.
I'm just pointing out that, yes, she does actually have someone who does genuinely love her. Nevermind that I'm pretty sure they are AT LEAST friends with Luna. |
| dudemang #1304833 2 months ago |
Somehow it doesn't strike me so much that Celestia was powerless, rather that Chrysalis was simply more powerful.
The way the argument is put forth:
Just doesn't quite jive. If it is such, would Celestia have been able to put up any sort of fight? She wasn't defeated outright, so to speak - it was only after a magical duel between the two, a duel that Chrysalis almost lost. The "friendship is magic" thing is true, the Elements of Harmony being the most outstanding example, but "all magic is based on friendship"? I'm not so sure. Twilight was noted to be a gifted pupil in magic even before she became friends with the Ponyville lot. Is Rarity's or Twilight's mundane use of magic to move things based off of friendship? Why can't Sweetie Belle do magic, now that she has tightly-knit friends in her fellow Crusaders? Friendship is magic, but it seems magic isn't necessarily friendship. Celestia doesn't possess the power of love herself, in any amount. She loves her subjects, and as far as I'm concerned, that's without dispute. She explicitly challenged Chrysalis with the line "I'll protect my subjects from you." Maybe it doesn't manifest itself in a gemstone accessory Hasbro can sell along with a toy, maybe not even in an especial metaphysical sense like the power of love Shining Armor and Cadence displayed, but her actions made it clear. That aside, even with her alleged powerlessness, she's been managing the cosmos alongside her sister, and even before, without her sister, for a millennia, and can casually dispel Twilight's town-wide enchantments. Love is the extreme form of Friendship This is worth bringing up, because I think it's made clear that the bond between Shining Armor and Cadence is made out to be exceptional (not to mention, Cadence's particular talent seems to be spreading love), which is why Chrysalis could draw so much power from it, and why they could defeat the changelings with that And besides, while all magic isn't friendship, it IS true that some of the most impressive feats of magic in the show have been the result of friendship or love. Now, I'm saying all this to reinforce the crux of my objection: Celestia is not powerless. She wouldn't be God-queen-princess-whatever of Equestria if she was. But there is evidence that she isn't quite the top horse anymore, that much is certain. She passed on the Elements of Harmony because she and her sister could no longer use them, and because Twilight Sparkle and friends could use them better. The love that Shining Armor and Cadence possess is undeniably the power source that both helped Chrysalis defeat Celestia and flung the Changeling queen from Canterlot to parts unknown. I think the point is, there are new, wonderful bonds of power emerging. While the union of the two celestial sisters has been since shattered because of the Nightmare Moon incident, we have a group of six friends and a royal couple that have stood against evil since. Maybe that's the point you're all making anyhow. If it is, I'm sorry. But I can't accept the idea that "Celestia is powerless", when it just seems to me that simply something more powerful has come along. |
| DhanaRagnarok #1304879 2 months ago |
^This. Just this. dudemang said it all.
Celestia is FAR from powerless, she just can't compete by herself with the Magic of Friendship nor the Magic of Love. WHICH IS KINDA THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SHOW. (If I could just add one thing to your rant, I'd have used Trixie as an example of Friendship==Magic but Magic!=Friendship. She's probably the least friendly pony we met, and yet one of the most skilled. - Far from Twilight, but we have yet to see another unicorn superior to her.) |
| John #1304927 2 months ago |
This thread is far too long for me to read but I'd like to point out that Luna may not live in the castle!
During the scene when she changed Celestia on the tower, she flew from outside of the barrier (so she wasn't in Canterlot during the day). Perhaps she just wasn't in Canterlot when the attack happened. |
| dudemang #1304930 2 months ago |
Yeah, I guess, but I don't think of Trixie immediately if only because she's more showy than outright powerful. (Though she isn't a unicorn without aptitude.) |
| Anonymous #1305493 2 months ago |
Or maybe the Changeling queen had the foresight to drug Luna before hand |
| Anonymous #1306775 2 months ago |
I still can't accept Luna being nocturnal as an excuse.
We could see Celestia do things at night. Why wouldn't Luna do the same as well? |
| fixman88 #1308763 2 months ago |
*hugs Luna* |
| Everypony #1308926 2 months ago |
Luna: the kettle calling the pot black I heard you were unable to defeat the changeling queen? |
| Anonymous #1401335 2 months ago |
Haha! another flame war!
this pleases me |