Ponibooru

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MaroonBunyip #1265919 3 months ago

they are all the 'bad guys' though

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1265925 3 months ago

Flim and Flam aren't, the Apples are just terrible business ponies.

Anonymous #1265928 3 months ago

they are all antagonists

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1265932 3 months ago

^True.

RepentantAnon #1265933 3 months ago

whatever you say, op. just one question. meringue, or apple? actually, dont answer.

Psychopomf #1265934 3 months ago

Antagonists though Could also put Blueblood on the right

Anonymous #1265937 3 months ago

[high pitch whine] BUT... BUT MY FANFIC SAYS OTHER WISH YOU TROLL!! THEY ARE BECAUSE *I* SAY THEY ARE!! WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Ashdreg #1265939 3 months ago

Gilda: Jealous old friend Trixie: A show pony, who made 3 of the 6 mane6 look dumb, and embellished a lot. Flim Flam: Business ponies who got too arrogant with their invention.

j103 #1265941 3 months ago

trixie wasn't an antagonist dash, applejack, and rarity were antagonists

sargesprinkles #1265943 3 months ago

ya know the Shadow Bolts were in just one scene and were nothing but an illusion and one of them was Nightmare Moon in disguise.

Anonymous #1265949 3 months ago

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous *smacks forehead* It's obvious to anyone that the Flim Flam brothers wanted to scam the Apples and run them out of town no matter what. Do you really think they would honor whatever deal they were planing?

RandomFanguy #1265951 3 months ago

Lets all agree, Trixie is best antagonist.

Impious #1265956 3 months ago

Trixie would have went her merry way in peace if Applejack, Rainbow Dash and Rarity hadn't heckled her. She's too proud NOT to respond. and Flim and Flam initially weren't malevolent, but Applejack is an absolutely horrible businesspony with "steal my farm from me!" written all over her face. Can you blame em? And finally, Gilda was reacting like any of us would; Say you haven't seen your best friend for years. You both decide to hang out for a day and reminisce. Suddenly, new friend comes around who is incredibly annoying and can't take a hint. Big red flag. And of course, she ended up losing her only friend anyways. Nightmare Moon, on the other hand, is a chaotic evil death parasite that wants to freeze the world and slowly kill it, and Discord is a complete monster that delights in sowing the seeds of misery and destroying mortal minds. So, there you go. But, we can all agree that Diamond Tiara is a cunt that needs a punt.

Glord #1265957 3 months ago

ANTAGONISTS!! AN TAG ON ISTS!!!!!!! GOD DAMNIT!!!

ARGH #1265959 3 months ago

even if they aren't considered "antagonists", they can be considered elements of conflict in a story

Anonymous #1265961 3 months ago

j103 Someone actually thinks this. Dear God... sargesprinkles They were *all* Nightmare. She split into three ponies. She's a shape-shifter.

CottonTales #1265964 3 months ago

Trixie? that's not how you spell Discord

Anonymous #1265970 3 months ago

Impious #1265956 Oh my God, what? What episodes did you watch? This is MLP, not a melodramatic anime. You're thinking *way* too hard on this.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1265972 3 months ago

My point is that if you had any understanding of how the economics of business worked, you would know that their initial offer of splitting the profits 25/75 in their favour would have actually made the Apples better off. I understand that it's a kids show and that they're supposed to be the bad guys, but goddamn are the Apples ever bad at business.

Jack-o-Lantern #1265973 3 months ago

I still say the Shadow Bolts were real ponies in the New Lunar Republic... <_< >_> SIEG LUNA!!!

Glord #1265980 3 months ago

@Impious Gilda could have been less of a bitch about it. And trying to screw a bunch of rednecks out of their home is an antagonistic action. What are you, president of assholes incorporated?

PinkieDie #1265981 3 months ago

SEMANTICS! SEMANTICS EVERYWHERE!

Glord #1265982 3 months ago

@980 Somewhat intellectual rednecks. Forgive me.

Impious #1265983 3 months ago

970 Except everything I said is right. Hush anon, no one cares about anonymous opinions.

Anonymous #1265985 3 months ago

@Impious You are so wrong it hurts. Yeah, how dare AJ, RD, and Rare answer the call of Trixies challendge, then it was showed she was a liar. The Flim Flam brother's were scam artists, and just wanted the Apples out of the way no matter what? What do you think would of happened if the Apples agreed to the deal? I'll tell you, they would of run them out of town anyway. I mean, the machine can get apples on it's own. What would they need the Apples to begin with? And Gilda needed to chill out and was way to possessive. This is not Naruto, it's My Little Pony.

Impious #1265990 3 months ago

I'm so wrong it hurts you? Awesome, I'll keep being wrong then.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1265994 3 months ago

"Hey do you want to bet your entire livelihood on a competition where you stand nothing to gain but a sense of pride?" "Sure thing, what's the worst that could happen?" DUMB

Saint_Braeburn #1265996 3 months ago

A villain is usually defined as a evil person. So, it all really comes down to your definition of evil. For example, Gilda was a thief, a bully, and generally unpleasant to be around. And Trixie was a liar, a showoff, and a egomaniac who had little respect for others. While these offenses seem small in comparison to kidnapping and spreading chaos/darkness all over the world, they could be still labeled as evil . Wouldn't you label someone who steals from you "evil". Also, "nice job" tagging OP

Anonymous #1265998 3 months ago

Impious Yeah, keep telling yourself that. You're still wrong. Fans are *always* wrong.

Glord #1266001 3 months ago

PAIN TO THE ANONYMOUS!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!! amiright Impious?

Impious #1266002 3 months ago

But to clarify, I'm not saying they aren't total shitbags. But they aren't total shitbags without reason. Street performers are free to humilate hecklers, Gilda's temper was inflamed by what she saw as an intrusion on her only friendship, and Flim and Flam took advantage of what seemed to be a complete failure of a businesswoman.

Impious #1266004 3 months ago

*Humiliate herpa derpa.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266006 3 months ago

@Anon 985 What were they just going to steal all of the apples? They owned the apples, that was the whole point of trying to strike a deal with them. They needed apples, and the Apples need an efficient form of production.

CottonTales #1266007 3 months ago

@Clopitor That depends on if they would be able to sell at least 4 times more cider at the same price at least if not it's a loss Plus apples are their business so that isn't even exact since the apples not used for cider would be used elsewhere anyways I'm estimating they'd have to sell at least 6 times more for the deal to be profitable to them at all not even heavily ...but I know nothing of economics you may state a point against me if you want

mindcannon #1266013 3 months ago

@Jack o Lantern Please dont tell me you believe that.

Anonymous #1266015 3 months ago

Impious #1265990 I guess you'll take any victory you can get, huh? Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1265994 Because Flim and Flam wouldn't run them out of town eventually. That was they're plan from the start.

Glord #1266016 3 months ago

@Clopitor That was Granny and Applebloom stoking the flames of competition, if they had let the members of the family who aren't an old mare or a school filly do the talking there would not have been a competition. AJ and Big Mac need to control their more impulsive relatives.

CottonTales #1266020 3 months ago

...but if the FlimFlam brothers were to pay for the apples at a reduced price as well as share the profits then that would be a good deal

Saint_Braeburn #1266022 3 months ago

@Impious They never said Rainbow Dash was Gilda only friend. They just implied that the 2 were very good friends.

Anonymous #1266024 3 months ago

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266006 Their scam artist. Like they would really give the Apples a fair share. Eventually, they would of given the Apples less and less money, until their forced to leave. That happens all the time.

Bolan #1266030 3 months ago

I see shipping tools.

Impious #1266032 3 months ago

Well, the logic is that Sweet Apple Acres really would have been better off. The entire fucking town -and apparently ponies from outside of Ponyville- lined up for that cider, and there wasn't enough. With the Cider Squeezy, they would have had a surplus. At that rate, 25/75 begins to balance out, and Flim and Flam are both obviously brilliant; their machine worked. Whos to say they couldn't innovate other aspects of Sweet Apple Acres? In the long run, they would have benefited a LOT. But, Applejack is a shitty business pony, so they took advantage of her, just like they would in real life. That isn't evil, it's economics. It happens all the time.

Anonymous #1266034 3 months ago

CottonTales #1266020 At first. Didn't you notice how fast they said that they were going to run them out? And they were smiling the whole time? They're the ED EDD 'N EDDY of the show (minus ED).

Impious #1266037 3 months ago

Then again, they probably would have ended up double-crossing them anyways. whatever

Glord #1266038 3 months ago

Economics were designed to screw over the little ponies.

Anonymous #1266044 3 months ago

Impious #1266032 Someones over thinking a kids show again.The Apples would of been homeless in either senerio. One of them would of just happened sooner.

Anonymous #1266051 3 months ago

@Impious Yes, that's what we've been saying.

Impious #1266054 3 months ago

Anon, isn't that what ALL of us do? Over thinking a "show for kids" despite the fact that its following is almost 50% adult at this point? :/

Anonymous #1266056 3 months ago

@Jack-o-Lantern You can't be serious. That's the *fanon*, you idiot.

Glord #1266058 3 months ago

And why is it whenever we have an argument about who is or isn't evil it always dwindles down to whether the Flim Flam Brothers were going to screw over the Apples?

Impious #1266067 3 months ago

Jeez, anons sure are feisty tonight.

Glord #1266070 3 months ago

When aren't they?

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266072 3 months ago

@Cotton Let me educate you a little on why the Apples are the worst business ponies in the world. They can only make so much cider a day with their limited means of production. Lets assume they make the same a mount everyday, and that they make as much as they can. For the purpose of this example we will say they can make 100 liters a day, and that each unit of cider sold is one liter. We use the price of 2 bits from the show as the current price. We will also assume that at the there are 300 ponies who each want 1 liter if the price is 2 bits. Currently there is a shortage of 200 liters of cider. Since the Apples cannot affect the amount of cider they can produce, they can only change the amount that they charge. Now as we all know raising a price lowers the amount of demand, and lowering a price raises demand. So if the Apples had any form of business sense, they would raise the price until only 100 ponies were willing to buy 1 liter of cider. They never do this. Instead they stick to the price that is well below the market equilibrium, and suffer for it by always being one plot point away from bankruptcy. They are terrible business ponies.

Anonymous #1266073 3 months ago

Impious #1266054 Nope. Most see what happens, others make up shit to get mad at or want fanfic fodder. I'm the former. And I thought I didn't matter.

Impious #1266075 3 months ago

Anyways, Glord, I think the brothers' intentions were initially somewhat pure, since they did need the apples, but after seeing how hilariously bad Applejack's business sense was they decided to just go and run her family out of town.

zammullins #1266078 3 months ago

Gilda and Trixie are jerks, and the FlimFlam brothers are pretty arrogant, but they aren't exactly evil. At least none of them were trying to bring about eternal night or eternal chaos.

Anonymous #1266081 3 months ago

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266072 LOOK GUYS! I KNOW HOW ECONOMICS WORK ON A PONY SHOW AND DON'T TAKE INTO ACOUNT THAT THE FLIM FLAM BROTHERS ARE CON ARTIST! flim·flam (fl m fl m ) Informal. n. 1. Nonsense; humbug. 2. A deception; a swindle. DDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPP!!!! They were tricking the Apples one way or another. It was a scam, you idiot.

Anonymous #1266092 3 months ago

I'm I the only one that knows what "flimflam" means? It means to trick and steal, like promising to make a movies about a bank robbery as a means to steal the banks money.

Impious #1266096 3 months ago

Bad people don't always do bad things, anon. Is it that hard to believe that they might have been willing to play fair? They're opportunists. They only took advantage of Applejack because they knew they could, because no matter what you argue, yes, the Apples suck shit at business.

Glord #1266099 3 months ago

FlimFlams = The big fancy companies that run the modern world. Apple Family = The few and barely successful private business business owners. OF COURSE they would eventually want to screw them over, the whole basis of the practice is to make them think you're on their side and then BAM they're out on the street and you have another insignificant apple farm.

Anonymous #1266102 3 months ago

I think the names of the Flim Flam brother would of made it obvious that they were bad guy's from the start. And there are different tiers of villains, you know. Trixie would of been a 'B' class, Gilda and the Flim Flam brothers a 'C', and so on.

Glord #1266104 3 months ago

@zammullins ANTAGONISTS GOD DAMNIT!!!!

Anonymous #1266106 3 months ago

Wait, how is Gilda not evil? I mean, I understand Trixie (And firmly believe she isn't a villian) and the Flim Flam Bro., but Gilda? She stole, and made Fluttershy cry. I'm pretty sure both of those are considered crimes, and she is the only one out of the 4 who has commited a crime.

Saint_Braeburn #1266109 3 months ago

@Impious I mostly agree with you. But, my dislike for Flim & Flam stems from there personality. Like the boastfulness they showed after beating The Apple Family (even joyfully talking about destroying there homes right in front of them) and the fact that they were perfectly and quickly willing to sacrifice quality over quantity if it meant getting ahead. I, personally, wouldn't like them in charge of something that supplies me goods and services. Not saying they were bad people but they were unethical business men.

Anonymous #1266110 3 months ago

Impious #1266096 HA HA HA HA HA Your really reaching now. No, they were bad guys. Get it right. Read Glords comment.

Anonymous #1266120 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266106 I guess some people watch the show upside down to believe that Trixie and Gilda *weren't* the bad guys.

Jack-o-Lantern #1266121 3 months ago

Gilda is not evil griffons are like Klingons

Impious #1266126 3 months ago

Now you're just being belligerent.

Saint_Braeburn #1266128 3 months ago

Maybe it's just me but I consider Gilda evil. Just like I would consider a thief and a bully evil in real life.

Anonymous #1266130 3 months ago

Jack-o-Lantern #1266121 Gilda is a 'C' ranked antagonist, anyway. And I'm not going to listen the guy who thinks the Shadow bolts are they're own characters.

TheXIIILightning #1266131 3 months ago

Glord #1266132 3 months ago

God damnit am I the only person on this site who had a literature class in school????? From wikipedia An antagonist (from Greek ἀνταγωνιστής - antagonistēs , "opponent, competitor, enemy, rival") is a character, group of characters, or institution, that represents the opposition against which the protagonist must contend. In other words, 'A person, or a group of people who oppose the main character, or the main characters.

Anonymous #1266136 3 months ago

Impious #1266126 Look at your comments. Right back at 'cha. You *are* wrong. Look up what FlimFlam means, then get back to me.

Jack-o-Lantern #1266139 3 months ago

And I never listen to Anons

Impious #1266140 3 months ago

I think what I've been trying to say is that that they're bad guys, but they're not bad bad guys. Jerks and opportunists, but they don't go around doing bad things for the evulz or anything stupid like that.

Saint_Braeburn #1266142 3 months ago

@Jack O Lantern Yeah, just look at how much of a Klingon, Gustave le Grand was. (Sarcasm Mode)

Anonymous #1266144 3 months ago

Rainbow Dash is greatest villain. She makes all other ponies feel miserable, is full of herself and never gets what she deserves.

Anonymous #1266148 3 months ago

Glord #1266132 You mean some people *actually* look up stuff *before* shouting shit all over the place? Are you are martian? Who actually does research *before* they share an opinion?!

Impious #1266150 3 months ago

144 Finally, an anonymous post that isn't completely full of dicks

Saint_Braeburn #1266151 3 months ago

@Impious But, Gilda did steal and terrify the elderly soley for the evulz.

Glord #1266152 3 months ago

@144 Well she kind of learns her lesson. Kinda. It sort a sinks in occasionally.

Saint_Braeburn #1266158 3 months ago

@Anon144 and Impious Care on giving some examples to show how much of a villain, Rainbow Dash was?

Jack-o-Lantern #1266159 3 months ago

@Saint_Braeburn Gustave doesn't count.

Anonymous #1266163 3 months ago

Jack-o-Lantern #1266139 "But I reply to them. Everything they say is rendered moot because they're anons, the same way a bronies comments on a anti-brony video are moot because he likse MLP. I'm so smart. LUNAR REPUBLIC GO!" #1266144 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH GOD WHAT AN IDIOT HAHAHAHA SHE MAKES ME FEEL BAD SHE NEEDS TO BE BEATEN WHAT THE FUCK IS LOYALTY AND PREIDE AND ACCOMPLISHMENT HAHAHAHA!!

Glord #1266165 3 months ago

@148 I didn't research, I knew from having to sit through a boring as hell literature class waiting for the idiots to let the knowledge be hammered into their heads while I bang my head against my desk because I've already finished the novel we were currently reading. You tend to remember stuff that way.

Anonymous #1266167 3 months ago

Impious #1266150 "Yes, someone who agrees with my stupid biased views that makes no sense."

Glord #1266168 3 months ago

Jacko Anons SHUT THE FUCK UP

Saint_Braeburn #1266169 3 months ago

Lets keep this conversation civil, guys.

Anonymous #1266170 3 months ago

My question is why the heck didn't the Apple family didn't bother trying to haggle when the Flim Flam Bros proposed the 75/25 split? They go straight to no deal and then 2 of them let pride get the best of them when challenged. If we were going to bring in things like their deal about the Zap Apples with Stinking (and subsequently Filthy) Rich into the fold, they might have had more problems if they lost the farm. The Apple Family are terrible businessponies

Impious #1266171 3 months ago

Civil? On the internet? BLASPHEMER

Anonymous #1266173 3 months ago

Impious #1266140 Yes. Yes they are. You *do* know they're all kinds of evil, right? And they were the antagonist. They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. They're bad. From the start.

Zincy #1266176 3 months ago

Not wanting to get involved, but Jack's view makes me want to see a Klingon Griffon.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266178 3 months ago

Now in regards to the initial deal offered by the brothers. They suggested a split of 75/25 in their favour, and while at first glance this may seem like a ripoff, we have to examine the actual results. The Flim Flam brothers can produce 6 times as much cider as the apples can when the apples are working at their standard, sustainable rate. Since we see that after the competition, all of the Mane 6 and the Apples are exhausted, we will assume that they are working at an inefficient, and unsustainable rate at any speed of production after their initial rate. So now if the Brothers are producing the cider and the Apple Family are selling it and supplying the apples, 6 times as much cider will be produced in the same amount of time. Now while I did earlier provide a demand function that did not account for this much cider production, I must admit that there is little to no way to actually determine the demand for cider. Certain ponies buy more cider than others, many realize the inevitable shortage of cider and are unwilling to wait overnight, and only the end consumers were accounted for. I would assume that many restaurants would would wish to purchase the cider were there a surplus in the end consumer market. So we shall now assume a market demand of 600 liters, at a price of 2 bits due to these factors. The total revenue gained is now 1200, in comparison to the previous 200. 25% of 1200 is 300 which is 50% more than they were making originally. Also, any labour spent on producing the cider by the Apple Family is now free to work on other aspects of the farm, which in turn produces even more money. So while it is impossible to determine the actual cider demand of Ponyville, it is quite clear that the initial offer of the Brothers was not necessarily a bad one, due to the clear shortage of cider, it was in fact more than likely that it was beneficial one. As to the bet that the Apples make with the Brothers. I give you this: Even if the two groups had identicle production capabilities, there would still only be a 50% chance of winning. If they win, they maintain the steady income of 200 bits. If the lose they get an income of 0 bits. Expected value = (50%*200)+(50%*0) =100 An expected value of 100 bits compered to the absolute value of 200 bits shows that the apples stand nothing to gain by taking this bet. I once again leave you with the fact that the Apples are terrible business ponies.

Anonymous #1266179 3 months ago

Glord #1266168 Oh, okay. Anonymous #1266170 Because it's a 22 minute episode and doesn't have a story arc and would of ended the same way? Yeah, they're so terrible at business that they still are in business.

Impious #1266181 3 months ago

I said they're bad guys you dummy. But antagonists aren't always evil. Shit, admission to Trixie's first show was free.

Harlequin_Jester #1266183 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266185 3 months ago

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266178 THEY. WERE. CON. ARTIST. They were bad. They have the name FlimFlam right on them. They would of ripped them off at some point, leaving the Apple's in the ditch. And it's a kid show. You're thinking *way* to hard on this, and you have no idea how the market works in equestria. You are wrong and will always be wrong.

Anonymous #1266189 3 months ago

can't we all just agree they're all antagonists and villains are the top tier of destroy/rule the world? Oh who am I kidding, this argument is going to continue regardless...

Anonymous #1266190 3 months ago

@Impious "First's ones free, kid." I know it has nothing to do with nothing, I'm just being dumb.

CottonTales #1266193 3 months ago

@Clopitor They make 200 bits at their current rate if they were to keep selling at that price and take the flimflam brothers deal with the 300 you're talking about they'd make 150 bits raise the price by 50% (that is three bits if you keep up) lose the less dedicated customers they're still under what they made at first They could also use the apples they don't use for cider for something else (they are the Apple family) so technically they probably gain less than it seems But as you said the Apples could raise the price without the deal it would be financially better for them...but what I want you to prove is that the deal was fair

TheXIIILightning #1266195 3 months ago

Impious #1266197 3 months ago

Anon, you need to stop making "thinking too hard about a kids show" a part of your counterargument. That's kind of what EVERYONE IN THIS FANDOM DOES

Saint_Braeburn #1266198 3 months ago

@Clopitor Terrible businessponies seems a bit much, but I agree the Apples made a bad argument and several bad choices in that episode. But, as I noted before they strike me as unethical business people.

Jack-o-Lantern #1266200 3 months ago

It feels like wherever Griffons are from Gustave didn't grew up there, thats why I say he doesn't count.

Saint_Braeburn #1266202 3 months ago

This thread moves way to quickly.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266203 3 months ago

@Cotton If you had read just a little further you would see that I accounted for that in my explanation. My initial demand function had not factual basis, and even then I explained how an increase in supply could affect and increase in demand.

Anonymous #1266208 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266189 I think we need tier list. And them being the antaognist means they're evil in some way. Now, I made this up completely, but" 'S' tier: Discord 'A' tier: Nightmare Moon 'B' tier: Everfree Forest monster 'C' tier: Trixie/Flim Flam brothers 'D' tier: Gilda

NonAnon #1266209 3 months ago

You guys ever thought the reason the Apples are bad business ponies is because they're not assholes? First rule of economics: the best way to make money is to be horrible to people. Ponyville is NOT Canterlot. It doesn't matter if you have a limited supply, if you raise the price to _just_ sell out, the could-have-been customers won't like you. Unless you plan to expand and live somewhere else, such business is bad for your personal life. The Apples aren't in it for the money. They're farmer folk. They're in it for the lifestyle. So FUCKING WHAT if they suck at business. Farmers in Ponyville don't exactly have access to College Economics classes. Some people/ponies don't WANT to drag every bit out of their customer possible. Remember the the market sales-ponies in "Putting Your Hoof Down"? That's the behavior you're endorsing Impious. Yeah, it's their right. But shit like that gets your place vandalized. Those brothers, especially, didn't do a single Celestia-damned sincere thing in the episode. Every word and look they gave was sleazy. Edison did invent some stuff, he also stole a shitload, and slandered his competition. God, I hate this hyper-capitalism bullshit. Captilism isn't bad, but this moronic idea that unrestrained business is good for anything... well. It's what kept slavery around for so long.

Impious #1266213 3 months ago

Or maybe, Jacko, Griffins aren't all jerkass Klingons and Gilda was just a bitch? Just not evil. That's what I've been trying to say, you can be a total jerkass and not be evil. Trixie is not evil. Gilda is not evil, although she's damn close. And Flim and Flam aren't evil. Jesus.

Zincy #1266214 3 months ago

@209 "the best way to make money is to be horrible to people." The Koch brothers mantra.

Anonymous #1266215 3 months ago

@Anon185 >They have the name FlimFlam right on them. Yes because your name describes who you are perfectly... (Not arguing your point, just think the logic of that sentence is a bit dumb... even if names tend to be indicitive of character in fiction)

Anonymous #1266217 3 months ago

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266203 Whatever you say "professor." Unless you have a portal to Equestria, everything you said is null and void. NonAnon #1266209 HOLY SHIT SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN!

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266219 3 months ago

@NonAnon While I understand your point about not dredging the customers for all that they are worth, the Apples are consistently at the verge of bankruptcy, and i doubt anyone would hold it against them for wanting to actually be somewhat profitable, or you know afford that new roof/plow/hip.

Saint_Braeburn #1266221 3 months ago

@Jack O Lantern You do realize we've only seen 2 Griffons in the show, right. It could be that Griffons are a peaceful and pacifist race, and that Gilda was simply a bad seed.

Anonymous #1266225 3 months ago

#1266208 Are you implying that Gilda was less evil than Trixie/Flim & Flam? She stole, she hurt ponies physically, emotionally and verbally. She was more mean than the liar and the scammers.

Anonymous #1266227 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266215 Rainbow Dash. Fluttershy. Pinkie Pie. Applejack. In Equestria, yes it does. Your name tells ponies who you are.

Saint_Braeburn #1266229 3 months ago

@Impious As, I have said for 3 times now, it all depends on what one considers evil.

Anonymous #1266232 3 months ago

@Impios >Anon, you need to stop making "thinking too hard about a kids show" a part of your counterargument. That's kind of what EVERYONE IN THIS FANDOM DOES Correction: Thats kind of what EVERYONE IN EVERY FANDOM DOES. Noth that its a bad thing >:D

Zincy #1266236 3 months ago

I'm not agreeing with Jack in any way, but my head cannon is similar to his idea. I always picture them as kind of the "proud warrior race guys" against the more grand imperial ponies. Granted, I'm always for the grand empires so guess who typically wins in my fantasies. (The opinions expressed within are Zincys and his alone, they in no way pertain to this...what ever the fuck is going on)

Bolan #1266237 3 months ago

Glord #1266238 3 months ago

@208 first, you misspelled antagonist. second, just because someone is an antagonist doesn't mean they are evil. In Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, the Daien Army is forced to fight the Gallian and Phoenicis Armies because the Prince was forced into signing a magic contract with the country the Gallians and Phoenicians were at war with where if they didn't all of the citizens would die. Neither the Prince or the armies general (who is the secondary protagonist) want to participate in the war (against the primary protagonist) but have to so they aren't all killed. There are levels where you control each army and towards the end both protagonists are fighting each other on the battle field as antagonists to one another.

Anonymous #1266239 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266225 Yeah, but Gilda never put the lives of ponies in jeopardy because she said she could handle a monster, and didn't want to run the Apples out of town and home. What she did was trivial in comparison. I mean, what, she was just a jerk and yelled a lot.

Glord #1266242 3 months ago

*TRICKED tricked into signing, my bad.

Anonymous #1266243 3 months ago

@NonAnon "First rule of economics: the best way to make money is to be horrible to people." You are wrong. It was already been proved in the long run honest, nice business are more successful than corrupt, jerkish ones.

Saint_Braeburn #1266245 3 months ago

@Anon232 I think that the fandom "thinking too hard about a kids show" is what makes it so entertaining. I'm not saying there aren't downsides, but like things to be interesting.

Anonymous #1266246 3 months ago

>second, just because someone is an antagonist doesn't mean they are evil. *head desk* different levels of evil, dude. A bully can be considered evil. And it's a kid's show. Evil is very black and white like that.

Glord #1266248 3 months ago

@239 She could have given Granny Smith a heart attack. That would have been murder I think. Although then the conflict with the brothers might have been avoided.

TheXIIILightning #1266249 3 months ago

Keep this on, and you become his puppets XD

Anonymous #1266252 3 months ago

@243 *businessmans

Zincy #1266253 3 months ago

Isn't evil a point of view? An "evil" guy probably thinks he's just dandy.

Glord #1266255 3 months ago

@246 and there's also that, but it seems a lot of people on here are kinda confused about the exact meaning of the word "antagonist". THAT is what I'm trying to get across.

TheXIIILightning #1266256 3 months ago

Or his.

Anonymous #1266257 3 months ago

Zincy #1266236 I like this comment. There needs to be more like this. #1266243 Name one on the show. even pull up a image, or a link to a clip. Go ahead. And it has to be about the show. FlimFlam were the bad guy's in every way.

Zincy #1266261 3 months ago

6256, minor nostalgia right there.

Anonymous #1266266 3 months ago

@173 Antagonist=/=Evil In any book about star wars from the view of the empire the rebels are antagonist, so from THEIR point of view, their evil, so because the only view we see is from applejacks/the empires side does that make Flim Flam/the rebels evil? NO! Prove their evil, give us a reason, Saint_braeburn and Impious gave us reasons why their deal was infact a rather good deal, you saying "THEIR NAME MEANS SCAM! THEY MUST BE EVIL" is REALLY shallow.

Saint_Braeburn #1266268 3 months ago

@Anon246 and Zincy Just stated that point I have made three times already! WHO'S EVIL IS LEFT UP TO OWN EACH INDIVIDUALS DEFINITION OF EVIL!

Zincy #1266270 3 months ago

6257, i'm just throwing random ideas and nonsense out there, seems to be working.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266271 3 months ago

@Glord Yeah I know what you mean. I never say that Brothers aren't the antagonists, but from what we have seen, they didn't do anything dishonest until they cut the quality of their cider, in order to compensate for the mistake that they made in their hubris. When I hear people call them scam artist simply because their names are flim and flam, and not because of shady business deals or tricking them, it kind of annoys me.

Impious #1266273 3 months ago

What are we even arguing any more I feel like I've made an ass of myself because I'm arguing points that are either obvious or have nothing to do with anything

Anonymous #1266275 3 months ago

@Saint_Braeburn thats what I meant. 'Noth' was a typo of 'not.'

NonAnon #1266276 3 months ago

@243 Really? Okay, here's a scenario: You are running an honest, nice business that charges people a price that makes you a fair amount of profit. I open a nearby similar business and want you out of business. I undercut your prices so you HAVE to sell at loss to compete. I eat the costs cause I'm rich from using this strategy before. You go out of business, I jack up the prices and become richer than I started. Now, to do it again, somewhere else. This has been the practice since the first mule-driving merchants.

Zincy #1266278 3 months ago

Saint, you could also go into the whole relativistic argument. In the absence of an objective moral reality can we really say who is evil? But that's just overthinkin' it. Now, about those Klingon griffons.

Saint_Braeburn #1266280 3 months ago

@Impious "I feel like I've made an ass of myself because I'm arguing points that are either obvious or have nothing to do with anything" Just like debaters and politicians in REAL LIFE

Glord #1266281 3 months ago

@266 I don't know, you'd think a bunch of guys who go around in black robes saying they're "The Dark Side" would believe they're the biggest bad guys this side of Tatooine.

Anonymous #1266282 3 months ago

NonAnon #1266276 Which is what Flim Flam brother were doing.

Anonymous #1266283 3 months ago

In my OP, the most cruel pony is Pinkie Pie. But she isn't a villain because she is a designated protagonist, after all. I really got angry at her at A Friend at Deed. I never imaginated someone could be so petty just because someone doesn't want to be your friend. She public humiliated him, touched and destroyed his things with him pleading to don't do so. Ah, but because she did a good deed in the last minute all is forgiven, yes? Also, at the episode of Iron Will, so Pinkie Pie accepts tricking merchants if she thinks the price is not fair? I don't know how it is where you guys live, but here in my country that would be illegal. IF you think something is expensive, you just don't buy it. It's simple as that. But no, as always Pinkie is always right.

Anonymous #1266285 3 months ago

Damn this thread moves to fast.

Impious #1266286 3 months ago

That was my point, NonAnon. Flim and Flam aren't being evil, they're being businessponies. Applejack proved herself to be an easy target, so they capitalized on that. Or tried to.

Anonymous #1266289 3 months ago

Saint_Braeburn #1266280 *rim shot* Bada-dum Dish!

Anonymous #1266291 3 months ago

Mythologically speaking, Griffons are less like the aformentioned Klingon example and more like a nobler versions of Dragons. They take gemstones and gold, but put them to use for their nest instead of hording them for hoarding sake. Also their eggs are made of or look like Acate, a gemstone. If this were the case for the MLP:FIM Universe, I imagine Griffons to be quite defensive, something both Gilda and Gustave are to some level. Especially against Diamond Dogs and Dragons.

-Lunacy #1266293 3 months ago

Pretty much Antagonist ≠ Villain not all the time.

CottonTales #1266296 3 months ago

@Clopitor again they sell other apple related products with the apples they don't use them just for cider pay attention With the deal they are making .5 bits per apple (considering 1 apple equals 1 liter and still going off what you said) they sold apples at the mart for 1 bit They could just pick apples and sell them and have more profit than with the deal the Flim Flam brothers were suggesting Explain how the demand matters when you would make less than you would make from selling the raw product Sorry if I missed anything you wrote this took a sec

Glord #1266298 3 months ago

@Clopitor Yes, but still, eventually the Apples would have been screwed over by them. Probably. This is why the antagonists need to come back in the future, so we can further see their goals and personalities.

Anonymous #1266299 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266283 Yes, Pinkie *is* a diabolical genius. And what the fuck are jokes? I don't get them.

Zincy #1266300 3 months ago

6291, that could still put them in "warrior race" territory. Just without the "honor before reason" and "blood and thunder" aspect.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266302 3 months ago

@NonAnon That really doesn't explain where the initial money comes from, and generally speaking, big business is able to undercut, not due to having money, but due to having greater efficiency than independent business.

Impious #1266303 3 months ago

And I'll agree with 283 on Pinkie, at least as far as A Friend in Deed. Sure she made up for it in the end by solving the source of Cranky's misery, but the damn mare doesn't know the meaning of "no". If she were a male, I guarantee she'd be a rapist, or damn close. Can you blame Gilda for flipping her shit? A day alone with Rainbow, that's all she wanted. Pinkie has no concept of personal space. Looking past that, though, I love her. She just needs to learn how to take no for an answer and not take it so damn personally.

Anonymous #1266309 3 months ago

Also anon 1266283 don't forget the classic Luna eclipsed, princess recentally got free from the grip of evil side, start screaming about the return of said evil side, when all she really did was yell alot.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266311 3 months ago

@Glord If you can explain to me how a manufacturer that has no monopoly on the means of manufacturing can screw over a supplier that can manufacture the product themselves, I'm all ears.

Anonymous #1266312 3 months ago

@NonAnon There are rules against "unfair business". That would be impossible in my country.

Glord #1266314 3 months ago

@283 She was arguing the price because the merchant raised it from an earlier price. YES I know there are several ways to argue against that. They really could have done that part better. The cherry merchant was just an ass though. Pinkie's problem is she's kinda dense at times and stubborn.

Zincy #1266315 3 months ago

Hardball, pony economics edition.

Jack-o-Lantern #1266316 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266317 3 months ago

@291 lol Spike: Hey look an Acate! Griffon: MY CUB!!! Spike: <look of horror>

Saint_Braeburn #1266319 3 months ago

@Anon283 "But she isn't a villain because she is a designated protagonist, after all." A protagonist is just the main character. One can be evil and a protagonist. For example the Protagonist of "American Psycho" was the sociopathic Serial Killer Patrick Bateman.

Anonymous #1266321 3 months ago

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266302 How does Fluttershy have any money? what? It's a kid show? Oh, okay, I shouldn't think to hard on this. It *is* stupid to over think stuff like that.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266323 3 months ago

@Anon 1266302 Actually that comment is directed at the real world.

Anonymous #1266325 3 months ago

@Glord So if I sell a apple for $1 yesterday, I can't sell it for $2 today? Why shouldn't I?

Zincy #1266326 3 months ago

Saint, there's a trope for that. I believe its "villain protagonist" strangely enough.

Anonymous #1266328 3 months ago

Saint, I think anon283 was using protagonists sarcastically.

Anonymous #1266332 3 months ago

or the term villian sarcastically, it's kind of hard to describe what I mean.

Anonymous #1266333 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266309 Wasn't that part of an act? She really wasn't afraid, and neither were the kids. The whole point of Nightmare Night is to be scared, and Luna laid it out without even trying. Pinkie thought that Luna was acting.

Glord #1266335 3 months ago

@Clopitor How do you know the brothers don't have a supply back where ever they came from? The biggest problem with figuring out the morality or whatever you call it is it's a 22 minute show and the conflict has to be resolved in that time unless it's two parts. Not enough time to give background information and all the information needed to get a good idea of a character. And then. Fandom comes in to make hundreds of epileptic trees. My god, I just realized how pointless this argument is.

Impious #1266336 3 months ago

Anon, that part of your counterargument is a logical fallacy. If it doesn't make any sense, why not question it? Doesn't matter if it's "just a kid's show". Stop being silly. You've shown you're pretty smart, so cut that shit out.

Anonymous #1266337 3 months ago

@Glord If you don't like my price you simply don't buy it. It's simple as this.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266343 3 months ago

@Glord Yeah that was an example of first degree price discrimination where you charge everyone according to their reservation price.

Glord #1266344 3 months ago

@325 I said there were many arguments against my point.

Saint_Braeburn #1266346 3 months ago

I just realized there are several DIFFERENT arguments going on in this thread. And I'm trying to keep up with all of them. At once. Derp.

Zincy #1266349 3 months ago

I'm surprised no one has brought up the apple family withholding apples from the main market to manipulate sales prices! Or them supporting a militant splinter political party that shares their common interests at the expense of their livelihood....wait wrong family.

Impious #1266351 3 months ago

Jesus, this thread both moves fast and isn't even worth it any more. We've been arguing for an hour and we haven't gotten anywhere. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong at this point, it's just a waste of time. I'm going to go get a bag of snacks and kill some raiders.

Anonymous #1266354 3 months ago

Impious #1266336 Because you get threads like this. I say wait for the show to say, because if I learned anything, is that the fans are always wrong. Their theories, back stories, their need to paint the hero's as villains and vice-versa, all of it. They're always wrong.

Nightweaver20xx #1266356 3 months ago

This is the longest and most pointless bullshit on this board that I've ever not read.

Anonymous #1266357 3 months ago

1266333 Well she still did the act scared after Luna showed how she wasn't enjoying the treatment what with the whole "THIS IS INSULTING! I BAN THIS HOLIDAY" Though that could be legitimate fear that time.

Glord #1266358 3 months ago

AH TOO MANY REPLIES!!! SLOW DOWN!!!

Impious #1266359 3 months ago

So, uh, let's just go with Braeburn's "evil is subjective" argument. Because it's the most correct thing in this thread.

Glord #1266362 3 months ago

@357 That was partially Rainbow Dash's fault.

Zincy #1266363 3 months ago

6356, do what I'm doing. Shout random things, its rather fun.

Anonymous #1266366 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266357 Yeah, Pinkie *is* random. She was scared that there would be "NO MORE FREE CANDY?!"

Glord #1266367 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266368 3 months ago

You know we could just move this to a forum with nerds who will arguee anything to the smallest detail, like spacebattles and stardestroyer.net BBS (real idea and shameless advertising of some of my fav sites)

Zincy #1266369 3 months ago

Evil is subjective in the absence of an objective moral structure in which to gauge evil/good behavior.

Anonymous #1266372 3 months ago

I think perhaps this can be useful. It's kinda late, I will go to bed for now. Tomorrow I will upload a list of all the moments Pinkie Pie were a jerk, and then all of you will see what I am talking about.

Anonymous #1266379 3 months ago

Part of me wants to bring up the Teen Dragons and ask where they fit because they do things that can be considered villianous, yet this might be a case of "boys being boys" for their species. come to think of it, a sense of morality can vary between species, culture, and individuals. Sure we can argue human morality till the cows come home, but then what is the point?

Anonymous #1266380 3 months ago

Gilda wrecked Pinkies flying machine :(

Anonymous #1266381 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266368 EAT AT JOES EAT AT JOES EAT AT JOES EAT AT JOES (If no one get's that, I'll feel old and sad.)

Saint_Braeburn #1266382 3 months ago

@Impious Jesus, this thread both moves fast and isn't even worth it any more. I KNOW RIGHT. @Anon354 Not always.

CottonTales #1266383 3 months ago

also villain=/= antagonist antagonist=/=evil/bad hero=/=protagonist protagonist=/= good

Glord #1266384 3 months ago

OKAY HERE IS HOW EVIL IS LABELED IN EQUESTRIA HARMONY = GOOD ANYTHING ELSE = EVIL THE END LALALALALALALALA- LA!

Zincy #1266387 3 months ago

6379, there really isn't one. But philosophers have been arguing it since time time immemorial.

Anonymous #1266388 3 months ago

anon #1266368 (love how due to how fast the post are coming we have to use the entire post # now) Well mines was also a real idea, thats just shameless advertising.

Anonymous #1266389 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266372 You could do that for any character. Aren't they suppose to be dynamic in characterization? They have flaws, and they don't always set out to be a jerk, but sometimes, shit happens. The difference is, did she *mean* to be a jerk, or was she clueless?

CottonTales #1266394 3 months ago

people slow down please how can we have any sort of conversation like this

Glord #1266396 3 months ago

Anyone have a gif of Nostalgia Critic running around the screen screaming "This is Stupid"?

Zincy #1266397 3 months ago

Cotton, be a fast reader.

Anonymous #1266398 3 months ago

So all in favor I post this on a debating site say AYE!

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266400 3 months ago

Aye

Anonymous #1266401 3 months ago

@389 If you want I can do a list for every main character. You will be surprised by who have the longest list.

Anonymous #1266402 3 months ago

Glord #1266396 But then you'd be labeled as a Nostalgia-fag or something and start this whole thing again.

Saint_Braeburn #1266404 3 months ago

@Anon379 "boys being boys" They tried to destroy a creatures eggs/children for the LOLZs.

CottonTales #1266407 3 months ago

well it's slowing down to a reasonable speed now @Zincy yeah but I miss a lot when I type things out

Anonymous #1266408 3 months ago

12266401 That would be nice.

Anonymous #1266409 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266401 I think you missed my point.

Zincy #1266411 3 months ago

6398, Morality arguments never go anywhere since its impossible. Since objective nature is, as yet, unobservable it just goes in circles.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266413 3 months ago

@Saint I could BS about how dragons may be the only known natural predators of the pheonix.

Anonymous #1266414 3 months ago

@409 Oh, I didn't. If you screw up everyday, are you really screwing up?

Glord #1266415 3 months ago

@402 But that scene was funny.

Zincy #1266416 3 months ago

I've spent a lot of time in said debates. It ends up with the subjectists yelling unfalseifiable and the objectivists quoteing their fav holy book.

Anonymous #1266420 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266401 But it would be a list of what *you* think is being a jerk, not what actually *is*. It only counts as bad if they set out to be a jerk. As in, they meant for that to happen. And pranks don't count.

Anonymous #1266426 3 months ago

@Saint_Braeburn DRAGON EQUIVILENT of "Boys being Boys" by my morality, those jerks are more evil than even Discord and Nightmare Moon, But I am not a Dragon, They might consider such an act to be like burning ants with a magnifying glass, disturbing as hell and antisocial, but so lond as they grow out of it harmless. Again, I have no clue, I am not a dragon.

Glord #1266427 3 months ago

EVERYBODY STOP!! Hammer Time!

CottonTales #1266431 3 months ago

Pinkie Pie hasn't been an intentional jerk yet has she?

Saint_Braeburn #1266432 3 months ago

@Anon402 Doesn't NostalgiaFag already have a meaning?

Zincy #1266435 3 months ago

You want a firecracker of a moral phil thread. Try and solve "the problem of evil" in relation to a omnipotent monotheistic deity. That gets ugly quick.

Anonymous #1266436 3 months ago

@420 There are some things that are universally considered a jerkish move. And of course you all will be free to disgress from my points... but I am pretty sure most will agree that they truly were jerkish.

CottonTales #1266437 3 months ago

@Glord G3.5 Pinkie Pie is unamused

Anonymous #1266438 3 months ago

CottonTales #1266431 Nope. She's just doesn't know when to stop sometimes. She's not perfect, but she never set's out to *be* a jerk, it just happens that way sometimes. It's life, sadly.

Anonymous #1266442 3 months ago

Zincy on 1266416 There have been morality debates before on the site I was using, there was one on xenocide. Sure their was a supprisingally large number saying kill them on contact with a slave race of berzerker robots that couldn't be traced back to us. Thankfully the votes were mostally on "only if they want to kill us all or enslave us" so I'm sure their morally up right.

Anonymous #1266443 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266436 And some people think Twixie can be canon. You're point?

Saint_Braeburn #1266444 3 months ago

@Clopitor And I could point out that the Dragons wanted to break the Eggs, not Eat them.

Zincy #1266446 3 months ago

Or try debating the measure of happiness with a stance utilitarian. That's always fun.

Anonymous #1266451 3 months ago

@Zincy #1266436 >You want a firecracker of a moral phil thread. Try and solve "the problem of evil" in relation to a omnipotent monotheistic deity. That gets ugly quick. We solved that one already. Suprisingly the answer was not 42.

Zincy #1266452 3 months ago

6442, but what is "morally up right" if we haven't even established what morality is or if it exists? See, thats why moral arguements turn into clusterfucks.

CottonTales #1266453 3 months ago

why don't we just discuss what happiness is

Glord #1266455 3 months ago

I think this is the best "who's evil and who isn't" shit storm I've been apart of.

Zincy #1266457 3 months ago

6451, well 42 is only the answer to life, the universe, and everything. Moraility exists outside of everything.

Glord #1266460 3 months ago

@453 Let's not unless we want to double the length of the page.

Saint_Braeburn #1266461 3 months ago

@Anon443 It's just as canon as every other Fanon ship.

Zincy #1266463 3 months ago

Cotton, happiness like evil is subjective.

Anonymous #1266465 3 months ago

CottonTales #1266453 It's Ice Cream with some caramel, right? Zincy #1266457 "I am nothing. And everything. The Alpha AND Omega! The-" I have no idea where I was going with that.

Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266467 3 months ago

@Saint Mongeese don't always eat the snakes they kill, but by jove do they always kill the snakes they meet.

Saint_Braeburn #1266470 3 months ago

@Cotton Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being characterized by positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy. Done.

CottonTales #1266471 3 months ago

@Glord I feel we could handle happy in like under ten responses not like we're discussing the existence of souls or something

Saint_Braeburn #1266472 3 months ago

@Zincy No it isn't.

Anonymous #1266474 3 months ago

@Zincy Subjectivley speaking, couldn't anything be subjective? Even scientific theories are disproved or have flaws from time to time and those are (mostly) based on observed data.

Anonymous #1266477 3 months ago

Zincy #1266463 You're a total buzz kill, dude. Saint_Braeburn #1266461 Exactly. It has no chance in tartarus.

CottonTales #1266478 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266465 YOU GOT IT =3

Zincy #1266479 3 months ago

Oh? I'd beg to differ, but I'd rather not get into a happiness debate. I don't think on the subject that often.

Anonymous #1266485 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266474 The term "subjective" is mainly used by people who can't come up with anything else. It can be applied to *anything*.

Zincy #1266487 3 months ago

6474, if you want to get really deep down yea..well in a sense, kinda. But this isn't the place for something like that, lets keep it to surface level debate lest we wish to be here all night.

Anonymous #1266494 3 months ago

I knew this thread was incredibly silly I knew I was reading this thread and liking it still I just realized I am ejoying this thread because it is incredibly silly.

Zincy #1266496 3 months ago

6494, thats what i've been doing. Just enjoy the ride.

Saint_Braeburn #1266499 3 months ago

@Clopitor Mongooses (I assume that's what you meant when you said "Mongeese") kill the snakes they meet, because the Snake is trying kill them. Because, snakes eat Mongooses. Mongooses mostly try to keep away from Snakes, since there diet consists of small animals that live on or under the ground.

CottonTales #1266515 3 months ago

1266494 You just have to enjoy the show

Anonymous #1266516 3 months ago

things finally seemed to have calmed down ... Quick someone make an argument why one of the mane 6 is actually evil! Doesn't matter if its BS, only requirement is to make it interesting.

Zincy #1266517 3 months ago

"Then repeat to yourself 'It's just a show, I should really just relax."

Saint_Braeburn #1266518 3 months ago

@Zincy I just don't see how an emotion can be subjective. If I'm happy I'm happy. If I'm sad I'm sad.

Zincy #1266520 3 months ago

That mantra should be renamed the FIM Mantra.

CottonTales #1266522 3 months ago

I don't think she's evil but I do think Rainbow Dash is kind of a jerk

Zincy #1266525 3 months ago

Saint its subjective in a sense that, its not the emotion, but the trigger. What makes one person happy may make someone else sad. The emotion, in a sense, is finite, but what triggers it is subjective.

some_zigga #1266529 3 months ago

Anonymous #1266516 Fluttershy almost destroyed the town by re-introducing a dangerous insect to Ponyville knowing full well what it was capable of.

Anonymous #1266530 3 months ago

@CottonTales I was just joking.

Zincy #1266531 3 months ago

Where a masochist may derive enjoyment from pain, average joe smoe won't.

Anonymous #1266540 3 months ago

it was a joke... I forgot those don't translate well over text on a screen.

some_zigga #1266541 3 months ago

Rarity,Rrainbowdash and Fluttershy ruined a cake that had months of planning put into it because they coulden't wait a day before eating it.

some_zigga #1266543 3 months ago

are these interesting enough?

CottonTales #1266547 3 months ago

Completely aware Anon and Twilight used a spell to brainwash the entire town to fight over a doll

Anonymous #1266548 3 months ago

Sup the brony who said he was going to post this on a real debate site here, got the link. http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=222575 Not sure if you need a account to read anything there nowadays.

CottonTales #1266553 3 months ago

we still need something for Applejack and Pinkie Pie people

Zincy #1266555 3 months ago

I do hope its better then the debates in DA's phil/rel forums. Oi...

Saint_Braeburn #1266559 3 months ago

@Cotton You should know by now that you need to note who your comment is for. @Zincy Of course. I thought you were saying that the feeling of happiness is subjective. What things trigger happiness is obviously subjective.

Zincy #1266565 3 months ago

The most I've ever thought on happiness arguments is just how to dismantle utilitarian arguments. Its rather fun to do.

some_zigga #1266567 3 months ago

@Cottontales Applejack lied to her friends, putting her element of honesty into question. Putting the whole world at risk. Okay I'm kinda reaching here but that's all I got off the top of my head.

Anonymous #1266571 3 months ago

Not saying she is evil, But if Fluttershy ever became a villian she might be the scariest thing ever. Every time she snaps she seems to be crueler than the last time. eventually you'll have a mare attempting to depose celestia and rule over Equestria with an iron hoof.

Saint_Braeburn #1266578 3 months ago

@Cotton and Zigga I'm going to assume your just throwing out things and already know whats wrong with your statements If that's the case, I would like to point out that Pinkie and Applejack caused the whole ton to become ill by making tainted goods.

some_zigga #1266582 3 months ago

Zincy how does the subjective nature of happiness dismantle the utilitarian philosophy? I though the idea was about making decisions that create the MOST happiness, not necessary happiness for everybody.

Zincy #1266592 3 months ago

No, i wasn't saying that was the arguement. Just that the most I ever think about happiness is just to dismantle them.

Saint_Braeburn #1266597 3 months ago

My god, was this debate derailed

some_zigga #1266598 3 months ago

@Saint_Braeburn He said I could use BS arguments so yeah I'm just throwing out shit.

Zincy #1266599 3 months ago

The happniess argument is boring to me and only really relevant when I'm up against a utilitarian. Even then I find it...dull.

CottonTales #1266600 3 months ago

Fluttershy also insulted the lifestyles of two of her closest friends when they were just trying to help and stole the pet of Princess Celestia (seriously what is wrong with that pegasus) Rainbow Dash left a string of pets behind in a life threatening obstacle course Pinkie harassed a donkey that was just moving into town and minding his own business All of the mane six also attacked an innocent Zebra in her home in the woods I could make other things sound worse than they were but this is a start

Anonymous #1266608 3 months ago

@Some_Zigga and Cottontales She didn't lie outright, she mislead though vague words, aguably far worse. Outright making stuff up is wrong, but using bits of truth erroneously to hide another truth is like pouring acid on a burn. Plus she could've gotten ponies killed trying to outrun a train so she wouldn't have to fess up. if things were to happen a bit differently... AJ: No blue ribbons... Twi: Applejack, Pinkie and Rarity are dying all because you lead us on a wild chase JUST BECAUSE YOU GOT 2ND PLACE? AJ: ...Yeah I didn't think this through...

CottonTales #1266618 3 months ago

@Anonymous and Some_Zigga Cool so we covered all the mane six right?

some_zigga #1266620 3 months ago

@Zincy Oh okay then I misunderstood. What do you have against the utilitarianism if you dont mind me asking. I know it cant possibly work for every situation but as far as philosophy's go, It seems like a pretty safe one to model your life after. Not trying to troll just curious since you brought it up a few times.

Anonymous #1266621 3 months ago

I think so... dare i ask who is next?

Anonymous #1266622 3 months ago

ninja'd by zigga

CottonTales #1266629 3 months ago

I dunno sorta want to hear what Zincy has to say about this utilitarian thing zigga is asking

Anonymous #1266638 3 months ago

Its times like this I want to take philosophy courses.

Zincy #1266647 3 months ago

Zigga, it would take several posts to explain, and I don't want to debate it. But while the core idea is great on paper, it can't work in real life. The core of it has to do with how does one quantify and maximize happiness. How does one deal with dissidents and criminals. How does one deal with happinesses counter to one another. And what it can be used to justify (Mass slavery would produce a lot of happiness for a lot of people, and there's ways to us UT to justfiy it, also killing every criminal could be justfied to. )

Zincy #1266656 3 months ago

Keep in mind this is a super, super, cut down statement. I can't do a debate about this in text. we'd be here all night.

CottonTales #1266662 3 months ago

Threads over people pack your gypsy belongings time to move to the next one

Anonymous #1266667 3 months ago

/Thread.

some_zigga #1266672 3 months ago

I not planning on starting a debate (way to late for that), just curious on your view on of it. Thanks for sharing. One last thing though before I go to bed, what philosophy(s) do you actively practice, or at least have a high opinion of?

Anonymous #1266703 3 months ago

@Some_zigga I'm a post-humanitarian if you're asking.

Zincy #1266723 3 months ago

Humanism is my most defining trait. But its easyer to list philosophers I follow. Paine, Volteire, Locke, Henry David Theoru, and a bit Kierkegaard- the christian thing.

Sono #1266732 3 months ago

Um, wow. That's a huge amount of comments. Let's just go with "antagonistic".

Zincy #1266735 3 months ago

Kierkegaard's ideas on individuality are fasinating, but since I'm not Christain thats the extent of what I can relate to with him.

YenaMuffin #1266736 3 months ago

Screw the picture, this not-quite-flame-war is awesome! :D

Zincy #1266740 3 months ago

You guys should have seen the very civil (well, not at first but it got there) religious debate that ended with everyone discussing what tea we liked. Can't recall what pic it was on.

CottonTales #1266748 3 months ago

is optimism a philosophy?

Zincy #1266756 3 months ago

yes Cotton it is.

CottonTales #1266767 3 months ago

tea? I like green tea personally

Zincy #1266768 3 months ago

Had to look it up, seems Leibniz is mentioned. Hmm, never cared for Leibniz.

some_zigga #1266777 3 months ago

I think ill read up on the philosophers you mentioned, but for know I must sleep.

some_zigga #1266787 3 months ago

*now

Zincy #1266789 3 months ago

Good luck with that, some of their work is...interesting.

Anonymous #1266828 3 months ago

I'll not dive into... all this. But just a note, Anon who believes "fans are always wrong": that's not how art works. As soon as you show your work to someone else, you lose control of it; it is now between the work itself and the perceiver. You can try to support your own view through an argument or subsequent work, but that's all. Art and the experiencer have a relationship the author cannot enter uninvited.

Anonymous #1267753 3 months ago

Villians: Celestia Not villians: everybody in this image

RealityCheck #1267777 3 months ago

Villains don't step up and try to fight off an Ursa Major attacking a town that isn't theirs. Villains also don't win a bet, then simply give up all their perfectly legitimate winnings (an entire farm) just to save face with a crowd.

Anonymous #1268343 3 months ago

Wow, this is the longest comment page ever...

PonyRIG #1268835 3 months ago

the level of "fun killer overanalizing" of this thread is insane!

Deserter #1270833 2 months ago

"Vegeta, what does the scouter says about this thread overanalizing level?" "IT'S OVEEEEEEEER NIIIIIIIINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAND!!" "What?! NINE THOUSAND?!, There's no way that can be right" K', you can shoot me now

Anonymous #1272994 2 months ago

RealityCheck #1267777 Someone doesn't know what a villain or an antagonist is. Does the term "Trying to save face" mean anything to you? #1266608 People like you take the fun out of the show. Dear God, it's just a show. A cartoon, nonetheless. #1266600 Oh, you stupid little person. You're just looking for things to complain about. We all makes mistakes, so do they. They patch things up, and move on with they're lives. You people need better hobbies. #1266567 *smacks forehead* The autism levels are increasing. She's not incapable of lying, she's really bad at it. You know, Twilight's magic doesn't always work. And her element *is* magic. You're all so stupid... I'm so glad you're all joking. Because if you all *really* believed this, then... I'll just laugh harder.

Anonymous #1273000 2 months ago

PonyRIG #1268835 Tell me about it. These types of people just suck the fun out of everything and are so completely blind and biased it's infuriating sometimes.

Anonymous #1273886 2 months ago

@j103 Antagonist has nothing to do with who is right or who started it. The antagonist is simply the one who opposes the main character.

Anonymous #1274951 2 months ago

The End.

Anonymous #1275685 2 months ago

OP is a faggot

Anonymous #1276144 2 months ago

@Clopitor_the_Hydrogenous #1266072: The purpose behind that was presumably to make sure everyone could afford their cider. It may not make the best business sense but it does make sense as an ethical stance the Apple family would take. #1266178: Given that there was no in-story indication that Applejack was wrong when she said that the brothers' deal would ruin them I have to assume she knows something you don't. #1266271: Well they did play to the crowd to turn it against the Apple family during one of their critical business times and use it to help pressure them into agreeing to a heavily lopsided contest with no real gain even though the brothers likely couldn't have gotten the supplies they'd need to compete with them directly the way they claimed. Plus the obvious way they played on the family's pride of course. Even if they didn't lie (depending on whether the threat that they could get their own apples was a bluff or not) it could still be considered a type of con. @RealityCheck: It wasn't just to save face. Not only was the crowd unwilling to do any business with them, but they also seemed about ready to run them out of town themselves.

Turnways_Flip #1276242 2 months ago

Um. I really don't want to get involved in this argument, but... RealityCheck? The Brothers never won the farm. Nowhere in the deal was it stated that if they won, they would get the farm, only the sole right to sell cider, a single product, in Ponyville. Yes, according to Applejack this would have driven Sweet Apple Acres out of business eventually, but it does not confer title or deed to the Brothers. They just thought they'd fast-talk themselves into winnings that were never part of the bet, and they would've gotten away with it if they hadn't had to leave in a hurry.

JA25 #1277182 2 months ago

Sweet Celestia, this thread amused me for at least twenty minutes. That's got to be a record. Thanks!

Bernoullis_Principle #1279194 2 months ago

Don't care. Love them all anyway.

Klondork #1282164 2 months ago

FFFFFFUCKING THANK YOU