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Comments
| Anonymous #1164599 3 months ago |
Too bad socialism doesn't work. Rarity, who has her own business, wouldn't be blind enough to be a socialist anyway. |
| Anonymous #1164600 3 months ago |
We all need to get off the horn. |
| dudemang #1164602 3 months ago |
>there_it's_a_PNG_happy_now
Yes. |
| Anonymous #1164611 3 months ago |
Socialism would be the best system... if it was made right. |
| Anonymous #1164615 3 months ago |
*if it were |
| AppleDash #1164616 3 months ago |
Socialism doesn't work with humans because we are lazy fucks who get greedy and corrupted by power.
Ponies... well to be fair they are also lazy fucks so I don't think it would work better for them. |
| ProfessorOfHoers #1164624 3 months ago |
There are socialist countries or countries that utilize large portions of tax revenue for the common interest that work just fine. That's ignorant.
However, Rarity is arguably the most "capitalist" pony on the show, what with her own business and all. |
| Anonymous #1164629 3 months ago |
I am certain this thread will feature a nuanced discussion of communism vs. socialism. |
| Anonymous #1164645 3 months ago |
Communism and socialism are two steps in the same process. It's an entire system of government based on pissing people off enough to make them overthrow the government and establish an anarchistic state. Not the worst goal imaginable, but a really batshit way of going about it. |
| Anonymous #1164650 3 months ago |
There's no conflict between being a successful small businesswoman/pony/entity and wanting a society that supports the least fortunate.
Rarity is the bearer of the spirit of generosity after all. Of course we've never seen any pony unable to pay for a roof over their heads or pay for healthcare, so whatever system is in place in Equestria apparently works pretty well. |
| ProfessorOfHoers #1164659 3 months ago |
^I agree but unfortunately most people who worship capitalism as the all knowing seeing god of all economic prosperity believe that such things should be delegated to voluntary charity. Unfortunately, given the monolithic size of our societies and the speed at which things change it's not a feasible solution; particularly involving medical care. Unfortunately only insurance companies and government programs can negotiate rates with doctors and hospitals and make for affordable care. (Note:Self pay at a hospital can cost you up to 10 times more than it will cost a government program or insurance company) |
| Anonymous #1164660 3 months ago |
Who wouldn't want a world where there was no poor, where everyone could eat and sustain themselves? |
| Some_Anon #1164662 3 months ago |
Is it time to derail another thread? I think it is.
 |
| Anonymous #1164663 3 months ago |
@Some_Anon
Why derail? There is no butthurt here. Just friendly discussion. Seriously, thinking a little about politics doesn't hurt anybody. |
| Anonymous #1164674 3 months ago |
Say, didn't the socialists have some sort of union? A union of republics, possibly soviet in nature?
How'd that work out? The idea behind capitalism isn't that people are supported through charity, it's that people get what they earn. The problem therein is making sure people get the chance to do so, and that should be where reforms to a capitalist economy are centered - making sure that if someone is poor, it's damn well their own fault. The contrast with socialism, see, is in socialism, people get what other people earn... |
| Anonymous #1164680 3 months ago |
Socialism doesn't work because those in power have told us that we are all as greedy and selfish as they are.
@599 owning a business is allowed in a socialist system. We need to stop thinking of socialism as the communist system of the Soviet Union. Also, they live under a monarch, they apparently aren't to picky about political systems anyway. |
| Some_Anon #1164684 3 months ago |
@Anon1164663: Call it preemptive derail, but sometimes it's better to prevent a potential storm before it actually happens. Even if it couldn't happen, but just doing it to be safe. That and it's been a while since I've caught a gif thread. |
| Anonymous #1164689 3 months ago |
No one here wants to mention France, or Switzerland? Two countries where socialism is working?
Most people love to bring up the USSR (which was commies using the name socialists) or other "bad socialist" countries, but no one wants to acknowledge it when it works? |
| Anonymous #1164692 3 months ago |
If there is one thing that socialist theory values, it's working. |
| Anonymous #1164701 3 months ago |
But is it their fault? It's far easier to get up on life when you have education, infraestructure, health, a confortable home.
Capitalism would be a perfect system if it was possible to give fair chances for everyone. And different from what some politicians say, no, not everyone have equal chances. Also what about who are just less capable? Shouldn't they also afford their basic needs? Also the pay is not equal to the effort: people who work on phsical jobs gets far worse payments, even if they work far more. |
| Anonymous #1164711 3 months ago |
@701:
But at the end of the day, those workers keep what they make. They don't give a full half of it to the government to do their spending for them, they dispose it in whatever manner toward whatever ends they like. They are, in fact, free. |
| ProfessorOfHoers #1164716 3 months ago |
^You have some interesting ideas about "freedom." Part of freedom is the ability to decide things democratically in elections. If the majority of society favors social programs to be spent from tax dollars why not?
Don't get me started on early American "mining cities" and child labor. |
| Anonymous #1164738 3 months ago |
Some people seem to be unaware what life was like before modern labor laws. |
| nyxabuse #1164812 3 months ago |
Socialism/communism, as defined by Marx and Engels, was originally supposed to come after capitalism.
It went: Ancient Societies - Feudalism - Capitalism - Socialism/Communism Tsarist Russia was still feudal at the time of the Russian Revolution; Lenin instituted what he called 'state capitalism' - this is why the USSR had money, when such a thing wouldn't be necessary under marxist communism. For Lenin, Communism was the end point: the Communist party was trying to control capitalism and then make was for communism. Of course, then Stalin took control and changed things to suit himself, the vision was lost under the long years of his rule. Which is why authoritarianism is a bad idea (way to go Lenin, maybe you should have just let the Mensheviks win that election...) But anyways, socialism covers many schools, from social democracy (what people are talking about when they mention Europe), through to marxist socialism (where the revolution is inevitable, and depending on the particular theory, will be brought about by primarily democratic means), through to the various 'vanguard' forms (Leninism, Maoism, etc - the violent revolutionaries). |
| nyxabuse #1164824 3 months ago |
@711: LOL
seriously man Under capitalism, the worker is not entitled to profit from his work; the capitalist (factory owner) is. That is, in fact, the whole reason why socialism got started as a movement (because the workers were half-starving in the streets, while they could see their bosses getting fat off their backs). |
| Vox-Portal #1164887 3 months ago |
Is this seriously happening on Ponibooru? |
| Anonymous #1164912 3 months ago |
Socialism is an unjust system.
But socialists don't care about justice. Socialist freedom means "Everyone gets exactly what I decide is allowable." Socialist justice means "Nothing can be earned, only given." "The rule of the majority is just and absolute*" *unless the majority doesn't want socialism. And there's no way in hell that Rarity would demand equal poverty for all and be stupid enough to call that "generous." |
| ProfessorOfHoers #1164973 3 months ago |
^That's not an argument, it's pedantic propaganda. You can do the same thing with Capitalism:
Capitalism is an unjust system. But Capitalists don't care about justice. Capitalist freedom means "everyone gets what we choose to pay them regardless of need." Capitalist justice means "You will earn what we give you. You have the freedom to starve." "The all-mighty-dollar is just and absolute*" "Unless the majority doesn't want capitalism." There's no way in hell that Rarity would demand lessening working conditions and poverty for her employees in order to fulfill the profit motive of capitalism and be stupid enough to call that "generous." |
| jimlahey #1165019 3 months ago |
Its sort of amazing how many americans have no idea how socialist the system is. Ever hear of farm subsidies? Do you know why american coke is made of corn and in the rest of the world its sugar? How many people have you ever seen starve to death in the street?
Really where do retards get the idea that socialism means they have to work themselves to death for nothing while all the lazy pieces of shit live like kings? Left to its own devises a true capitalist society would devolve into a dystopian shit abyss that would make Linfen China look like Shangri la. |
| Anonymous #1165080 3 months ago |
Well, this is interesting. I just uploaded this as a half-assed attempt to think of something for Rarity, and now, BOOM, intense debate on economic policy. |
| Anonymous #1165151 3 months ago |
Also, kerning with Photoshop is a bitch. |
| DoctorDreidal #1165284 3 months ago |
I...can hardly believe what I'm seeing.
A debate/discussion about the merits of Socialism vs. Capitalism that hasn't immediately spiraled into ad hominems, strawmen, red herrings and outright lies. Bronies, I am appoint. |
| Latios381 #1165470 3 months ago |
I'm a socialist so I support this. |
| Blissful_Dreams #1165487 3 months ago |
I'm a Marxist Socialist. I don't care for money and it needs to be abolished. Everyone working for the better of all and themselves. Allowed to take what you want from the economy as long as you put out more or equal to your input.
Imagine how fast things would evolve if the world was like that. We would be like "Star Trek" within the next 200 years. |
| Blissful_Dreams #1165494 3 months ago |
Oh yeah, at Rarity.
Unfortuantly, Humans have been programmed for greed. Nearly impossible to do what you wish. But other's like you can help. The Pisces, Libra's, Gemini's, and Leo's (in that order) can make a change. |
| Latios381 #1165516 3 months ago |
@Blissful: exactly. |
| dudemang #1165563 3 months ago |
Color me ignorant, but are there actual working models out in the world that reflect a socialist philosophy?
I don't know of any off the top of my head that are distinctly socialistic, usually just economic mutts of some kind. I ask because I'm curious, not critical. I hear a whole lot of idealism but I don't see any real manifestation of it. |
| Blissful_Dreams #1165565 3 months ago |
@Dudemang
Unfortuantly no.... The closest is Vietnam, but even they use money. Humans just can't give up money... |
| Anonymous #1165806 3 months ago |
@Bliss *others *were like |
| D-BO #1167167 3 months ago |
@#1164689
France, along with much of Europe, is social democratic, not socialist. And Switzerland ranks higher on the Heritage Foundation's economic freedom index than the US. |
| Anonymous #1200496 3 months ago |
Americans arguing about socialism when they don't even have an idea what it means.
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